Trackmania Turbo has a new release date

[novationx]

... I'm angry.

As a ShootMania Player, I just can Say That : " whoa..... Another delay...And SM in all This story ? Oh ok let's wait 2017 --' "
Let's be honest : Can You at least give us some news about what are You doing ?

Holy shit, your community is actually dying !
I play your games since TM eswc and it was better before !
So yeah, if You delay TMT, what about SM (and all others TM Maniaplanet games) ?
We need a clear and an attractive answer cuz actually, I'm planning to change game (UT4 or OverWatch)

I totally agree with Haenry. I'm not any happier about the delay than the rest of you, but I'd rather it be delayed than released unfinished. However, in the mean time, don't leave the MP community behind Please put some of your time towards a community that already exists (and is dying) instead of working on a new community. If you lose this community now, you won't have much of one in TMT either. So keep the updates coming, give us something to play around with (new blocks are always amazing), and I think you'll find that people won't be so upset when you push a release date back

I trust that you have good reasons for releasing it later, but at least give us [img]something[/img] in return, even if it is only some bug-fixes in MP.

Thanks,
Zack11

I guess this is exactly how most (SM-)players feel including me and my team.

I wish TMT would release in April so that everybody in 2015 could have gotten 2-3updates, small or big. That way NADEO could create TMT and the community could get updates in the meanwhile and everybody would be generally more happy. Ofcourse it's too late for that now. Anyways that's how I would have done it.

Like my signature said : It's way more fun ( for the community ) if you communicate correctly and frequently with even just a stupid screenshot or GIF or riddle. So you keep us here & excited and show us that ur working instead of this 24/7 silence. We have nothing to look forward to for another 6months... and we're just sick of it. At least make us excited... because now it feels like a black empty tunnel of nothingness and at the end (nobody knows when) there's a little light with updates. We're waiting in the dark...

PS : Do not missread. I do not want TMT in April. It was hypothetical.

[TMarc]

Wrong. If you had read the Ubi blog post (or the first post of this thread) correctly, you'd know the real reasons for the delay. Let me quote:

Every game what is optimized from console is bad.
Consoles have minimal specs for playing games.
If PS4 doesn't support DX11+ game will have pretty bad quality cos game will be not good when they move something from other engine to new one

This is only a fear, right?
Luckily TrackMania was first done on Pc, and TMT might be a port from PC to console, not the other way. However, it would be interesting to know how they manage to have a multiplatform solution now.

Regarding communication in general, you all write validé points.
But Nadeo knows that whatever they tell or announce always turns into endless discussions...

Let them work on TMT and make it perfect, and let's start arguing again only next year

[haenry]

Domino & haenry, Maniplanet is not untouched internally. Unfortunately, it's too much of a hassle and a loss of time on the long run to make small update at the moment. The strategy is to go toward Maniaplanet 4 closed beta, and then make updates, but we can not make small updates in the already much modified environment of work we had to do for TMT without taking too much time & risks about releasing issues.

I know that MP is not untouched (e.g. viewtopic.php?f=470&t=30822#p247506 )
But those changes never make it to the community

Now I am asking myself why other dev teams can release updates (even with new content) more frequently, sometimes even every week?
I have no idea how your team is structured internally, Nadeo, but I think it could be worth to invest a little bit into infrastructure for pushing updates. The ability to easily push updates is a really strong and important skill for a game developer. Maybe you can think about setting something like this up when MP4 comes around? Of course it costs a bit of time and team coordination to set up the infrastructure for easier updates, but it will do very good in the long run - especially because small bugfixes can be pushed very quickly.

But for now take your time on TMT. I've been waiting so many years already that a few months hardly make a difference any more. There are other games to gap the time - Rocket League here I come

[adsun]

Haenry wants me to post this here. Going a bit offtopic on the MP updates.
Smaller updates -> more detailed feedback -> better product -> ????? -> everybody happy

Since the beginning of MP you always had long update cycles and big updates. That is cool and I guess the intention behind this is that you want a finished product and probably generate some excitement before the big updates.
However, I belive that a more modern approach with smaller cycles between updates would yield moore benefits. Like detailed and more instant feedback, more acceptance of new features in the community, easier to trace down newly introduced bugs, small issues get fixed quicker and we don't have to wait forever for small things.
More like the updates for the server, what I can tell.

Now on topic:
I think in the case of TMT it is good to polish it as much as possible before release. Only sad that you will be missing christmas sales and that the earlier date was advertised so much.

[Cerovan]

Now I am asking myself why other dev teams can release updates (even with new content) more frequently, sometimes even every week?

Usually those teams works on one game at a time and each projects are independants (once they finish one, they don't come back on it).
With our games it's different, all the games work within Maniaplanet, we are actively working on 5 games at the same time (Trackmania² Canyon/Stadium/Valley, Trackmania Turbo, Shootmania Storm), so when we update a game, we must test that there are side effects on the others games or that a change break/generate a bug in a Maniaplanet feature.

So we are almost 40 people working on/supporting 5 online games at the same time and one plateform which few studios do (or can)

[hackie]

Now I am asking myself why other dev teams can release updates (even with new content) more frequently, sometimes even every week?

Usually those teams works on one game at a time and each projects are independants (once they finish one, they don't come back on it).
With our games it's different, all the games work within Maniaplanet, we are actively working on 5 games at the same time (Trackmania² Canyon/Stadium/Valley, Trackmania Turbo, Shootmania Storm), so when we update a game, we must test that there are side effects on the others games or that a change break/generate a bug in a Maniaplanet feature.

So we are almost 40 people working on/supporting 5 online games at the same time and one plateform which few studios do (or can)

You should work on one games as well , so you then at least finished one.
I think You , Nadeo , want to much.
You see the big picture ( I hope ) we don't , we only see you started to create a nice game, we had a nice player base and in the flow of time the game ( plans ) is getting to complicated and we hear nothing anymore.
Or at least not much.

Can't you even hear the fact : THAT THE COMMUNITY IS SCREAMING FOR INFO , UPDATES........and so on.
What would You do if the whole community leaves ?
You ever tought about that ?

I like the game , I like to play it , man I even rent a server , but this is leading no were if you ask me.
After all those years and positivity I'm a bit down.
Why the hell ( sorry ) should I believe you anymore Nadeo ? please explain : ???

[adsun]

so when we update a game, we must test that there are side effects on the others games or that a change break/generate a bug in a Maniaplanet feature.

Isn't exactly that what titles are supposed to do? You even call ManiaPlanet a "Operating System". If you designed it like a operating system there would be no side effects between components. Only changes to the OS (MP, not the games inside of it) should affect the games. And for that you should have clear definitions of interfaces.
And for the testing, you can automate that in most cases.
Maybe less time spent on now features (Custom weapons and character animation editor thing) and more time on focusing on the core features, which make TrackMania (and sm I suppose) and quality assurance.

And I suppose exactly that is the reason why TMTs release got postponed. So if you take your time to polish TMT, it might be something good. Lets hope for the best.

[haenry]

Now I am asking myself why other dev teams can release updates (even with new content) more frequently, sometimes even every week?

Usually those teams works on one game at a time and each projects are independants (once they finish one, they don't come back on it).
With our games it's different, all the games work within Maniaplanet, we are actively working on 5 games at the same time (Trackmania² Canyon/Stadium/Valley, Trackmania Turbo, Shootmania Storm), so when we update a game, we must test that there are side effects on the others games or that a change break/generate a bug in a Maniaplanet feature.

So we are almost 40 people working on/supporting 5 online games at the same time and one plateform which few studios do (or can)

Then let me just drop this one here to show you that it is possible, if you want to.
https://youtu.be/Mpsn3WaI_4k
It's just a matter of will and routine.

And if you say now that a bugfix in TM could mess up SM, I don't actually believe you. Or you must have really messy code, which I hope is not the case
On the other hand you, Nadeo, managed to destroy the lovely counter at the start of each map

EDIT: Good point, adsun

[kidmaciek]

So we are almost 40 people working on/supporting 5 online games at the same time and one plateform which few studios do (or can)

Jack of all trades, master of none.

[Cerovan]

You should work on one games as well , so you then at least finished one.

Except that the games are built to evolve with the plateform, so it's never really done. And i think you wouldn't like that too, develop a game, release it, and never touch it after (like no more blocs, didn't have a feature parity between the environments, etc...).

Can't you even hear the fact : THAT THE COMMUNITY IS SCREAMING FOR INFO , UPDATES........and so on.

We know, but we prefer communicate on something we are sure to deliver in a medium/small period of time than to give false hope to the players. And even when we do that, we may happen have a unexpected issue that delay the release of the feature/patch/thing planned.

Isn't exactly that what titles are supposed to do? You even call ManiaPlanet a "Operating System". If you designed it like a operating system there would be no side effects between components. Only changes to the OS (MP, not the games inside of it) should affect the games. And for that you should have clear definitions of interfaces.
And for the testing, you can automate that in most cases.

Except that coding isn't a exact science, especially because it's done by humans. We have an automized process but a manual check is always required. For example once we made a change to the engine that had an impact to the physic while at first it was completely unrelated (because not the same part of the code, but the change had a small repercussion on something in low level that we didn't anticipated). It wasn't a coding error (because the code worked), but the interactions between dozens of thousand of lines of code may generate unexpected behaviours.

And that's all i'll answered about that because we are way off-topic.