[BUG] Lagoon wood loops are totally random

[sayotoshi]

Sorry but I don't agree that "Lagoon wood loops are totally random".

For example map 63, loop works for me in 100%. So it's not problem with loop itself but with what's going on when car driving on the loop. At map 63 you jump in to a loop and if you jump straight there is no problems with driving loop.

On each environment in MP when you build start line with boost than straight loop and you start it and just PF each car will turn, Canyon most, Valley middle, Stadium very small turn. And also what is funny, orientation of map matters on how much car will turn. This of course is not very logic I agree but it is on each environment. So Lagoon isn't an exception here it just turns more than Canyon car. I remember that at beginning of playing Canyon I was thinking that walls and loops are impossible to drive witch this car. Now for me Canyon is the best environment for loop and wall driving.

Maybe it is a bit too hard, I don't know, but I also don't drive this environment long time so my skills are very very poor. And I'm sure that those loops for sure are not random just very hard for now.

[rat_in_car]

When I wrote "random" I mean "very hard to control / understand". Of course they are not random in a mathematical sense - every run with "press forward" gives the same results, so it's not random. In perfect environment even throw a dice can be calculated. But we call it "random" because number of calculations and factors is huge. So for me - lagoon loops are random. You can handle this loop at lower speed, that's for sure, but that has no sense. With higher speed, grip should be stronger and steering easier.

As I remember, first Canyon loops and wallrides was very hard, in beta stage. Nadeo fix that before they released official version, so maybe it's what you remember.

And btw. we all on this forum are not the only persons I asked about that loops and wooden parts. And everyone who I asked says that this blocks sucks. I just think that may be and should be fixed.

[xrayjay]

Best car handling in loops was afaik in tmu island, dunno why this car physic setup is not used anymore

[i7mean]

And Lagoon is a brand new environment, so if there's the right moment to do some improvments, it's now !

[rat_in_car]

And Lagoon is a brand new environment, so if there's the right moment to do some improvments, it's now !

Exactly! That's why I wrote this now. Unfortunatelly, as usual, we get no answer from Nadeo. :(

[FTRast]

Totally agreed upon that. And Lagoon has the potential to become the next island
Turns out it's all loops in lagoon.

EDIT: Besides the magnetic ones.

[rat_in_car]

Can I PLEASE get any answer from Nadeo? I don't know we talk just for sport or maybe this fix can be made. I feel totally helpless. If no one even consider change anything, then PLEASE save our time and write it to us. Sometimes I don't even know what all this support is for. We support you by buying game with bugs and you support us kindly allow us to complain?

As I see, moderators creates separate topics with list of bugs, list of wishes etc. Everything in one place so our dear programmers will not be so tired searching this forum. And seems that everything is for nothing, because that no answering policy.

[Joyako]

And Lagoon is a brand new environment, so if there's the right moment to do some improvments, it's now !

Exactly! That's why I wrote this now. Unfortunatelly, as usual, we get no answer from Nadeo.

That might as well be the reason why you can't understand it : you have barely played it, how can you tell it's complexity ?

Well, of course the Valley environment is very nice ! And the new Turbo blocks (mostly dirt) are really cool.
I agree when you talked about discouraging players. Especially in Maniaplanet, I felt like maybe all the environment would be playable on kb (tmuf at the opposite..). But when Valley came, the dirt gameplay was the worst gameplay of a TM environment on keyboard since island or rally. I personally don't see any difference in dirt in Turbo (btw what's wrong with the water blocks on dirt? they seem "random"), and I fear that new players get angry about this and just give up.

When Valley came out I played A LOT. And at the time I had no pad, and I must say even once I bought one, I liked kb over pad for dirt tracks. I believe it's just a problem of preferencies, but don't go saying the dirt gameplay is bad because you don't play it well enough.

[rat_in_car]

That might as well be the reason why you can't understand it : you have barely played it, how can you tell it's complexity ? :roll:

I don't fully understand your point. I bet that you don't read whole thread because if you do that, you'll see that me and other players tested it, even on special prepared map that shows the problem.

Every bugs in every program was tested and reported not month or year after, but with few days after release. Of course we may test it two or three months and maybe after that someone can say "oh, I can drive these loops" but that person will be in minority. I think that I'm experienced in TM enough that I can see the problem with driving. Many years of TMUF and TM2 gives me needed experience. I really don't give up quickly and I trying, but I also can see bigger problem that I described in this thread - people discouraged much quicker than me and this game should be not just for few maniacs who can learn very complex way to pass some loop. I have idea for improvement so I tested problem, share it with others, ask other players and then report it. Lagoon is great now but can be ruined by bugs like this.

Look at servers now - this game is out and you can play online. You can find servers with Canon maps only, with 30-40 players online and few servers with Lagoon maps only, mostly with 2-3 players max. People wants something they know and they can play. This env is fast enough to be hard for many players without additional obstacles like loops that cannot be handled proper.

[Joyako]

I did read the whole thing.
Special prepared maps are a way to test out thinsg, but it's not in any way the way the game is intended to be played. It merely shows the simplest interaction.

I started with TM², but I like to believe I have quite the idea on how to play. I admit I failed to pass them properly or consistently, but I did nontheless.
It's true that it might discourage players - but will it really ? TM is a try and die racing game (at least the campaign is). Of course you're gonna fail a few times. Like in many games of this particular genre, there are obstacle tougher than others. Have you ever given up on a super mario hardcore level ?

This is by no means a bug : I'm sure you noticed how the lagoon car behaves on wood platforms : it's the most slippery surface we've ever had in TM². Do you think there's a specific way on how loops are programmed ? Nope. It's a loop block with the wood surface. So the loop is gonna be slippery. No bug, intended behavior. It took me some time to "master" valley wallrides because they were different from Canyon's. It's the same thing.
And like, come on, the game was released 5 days ago, give it some time.

Your point on the server's state is pointless :
Remember the game was aimed at consoles, and now you're talking about the pc version. I believe a small part of TM² players have drifted to Turbo, and that they are the ones leading the Turbo campaing/online. Creating those same separations as in Maniaplanet. Experienced players create Canyon-only servers because that's what they like and used to play, a few other players just like him join, some new players join because they didn't go so far in the campaign and only know Canyon, the population get big enough to be at the top of the front page and the server gets populated, while the 2/3 ppl server doesn't go up because valley's gameplay is less attractive at first glance and stays at the bottom of the page.