The worlds First Tournament in Trackmania 2

[FrostBeule]

wait, weren't you gonna call me by my real name? i am disapoint Florent. or should i say Hylis now?

why are you writing my full name as some kind of extremely weird insult? i don't get it lol. i don't understand what point you're trying to make either (as always).

he was so kind to accept that you want to be called with your nickname reluctantly, now he does and now you are disappointed?

where have i said i want to be called by my nickname? i don't understand what you talking about.

I don't say this often, but you little kiddy , please go home to mami and please think again about what you wrote.

What do you except?

You weep like a baby that Florent doesn't kill nations, but you also insult him? Who the f*** are you to do this?

insult him? he continiously insults me, i just throw back a little. no reason to be angry tho, coz im not.

If you would have been nicely to him , maybe he would change something, but not even then, because you are maybe 1 of this 100 players ( of 9 000 000) , who think this way.

i seriously don't think im the only person who thinks like this. i just think im one of the few who are crazy enough to go against anything Florent says and give him criticism. he's really bad at taking it though.

You join this discussion, just offer critism and you think anything will change? If you think you can do it better than Florent, why don't you make your own game? Florent and the other 14 developers also made Nations forever popular, and they did all perfect! Also you have no chance to stop it. Even if Trackmania 2 wouldn't come this year, Nations forever will be staled. It's the same like Nations when Nations forever came.

i haven't said that i can make games or anything. but im pretty convinced that i know alot more about esports than Florent, and that I also know more about what's best for esports than Florent.

Really the only thing , which I hope Nadeo is doing is the following:

After Trackmania Nations forever came, nations was left behind. I mean really left behind. The top 1000 were full of boosters and cheater and Nadeo didn't care about it ( even if they ran the servers).
If Nadeo will still support Nations forever, but also a new game, I see no danger that the new game will kill Nations. But the affect could be that esport will go to Trackmania 2, because it's simple just better.

the only reason TM2 can become an esports game, is if the Nations players move over to it. Which ain't gonna happen regardless of how much money Ubisoft and Nadeo pumps into it.

Me as an developer, I would have banned you with your second post. It's ok to arrouse critism, but not like this way! It's the same in the ,,real world´´, if you just make critism without any suggestions or suggestion for improvement ( and I don't mean something like , mamy mamy don't make this tournament, make it for nations)
then nobody will help you.

ive made countless suggestions to Florent over the years. He doesn't agree often with me.

Sincerely,

Max


ps: if you discuss now that you have good suggestions, then go to esports leaders and talk to them, we are here in a Trackmania 2 topic and if you want to discuss than please do it in trackmania 1.

why should i discuss something like this in Trackmania 1 when it would clearly be the wrong place?

and again:

Why shouldn't Nadeo/Ubisoft promote a new game? Should they say, Trackmania 2 is coming, but be careful don't forget Trackmania nations, it's a free game and it's perfect. Wow that would be great marketing...

again, they should ofc promote their game. it's not about that. it's about how and in what way they are promoting it.

[DonTubo]

huge discussion in here .. took me a while to read everything

the only reason TM2 can become an esports game, is if the Nations players move over to it. Which ain't gonna happen regardless of how much money Ubisoft and Nadeo pumps into it.

hm. pretty arrogant statement you make here. Why can't tm2 become a popular esports-game without nations players joining/support? Maybe all the new players and the joining ones from tmuf will found a new esport-basis for tm2.

[FrostBeule]

sure they can do what they want. but it's like Korre says: 1. it probably wont become an esports game

Extreme preemptive bias. You are judging the game before it's even released.
Also, like I said, if it isn't destined to be esports material, then it won't be. It'll die out.
However, you are suggesting that NADEO not even bother trying, which is actually quite rude towards a company that released an entire game devoted towards esports competition for free.

ofc im judging it. i know it wont be Nations 2, so it wont be esports for me. it will probably tho be a very good game. listen, they can obviously try, i just don't think anyone is going to gain anything by pushing a game like this forcefully to become an esports game, when there is already an esports game is is established with teams sponsors events and famous players. it's not about being rude, it's about being smart.

2. it will only harm the esports community of TMNF that already exists.

Why so fearful? This is silliness. To suggest that a new racing game can't be added because.. OMG some players from TMN might play it instead of sticking with STADIUM!!! is really an overdramatic reaction.

you have to understand, Nations has finally after some years started to become rooted in the esports scene. this means we got several very known organizations that supports Nations players to go to competitions by sponsoring them. this development is increasing every day and we continue to gain respect from the traditional esports communities. it doesn't make any sense to ruin that by having another game put in its place forcefully. sure im COMPLETELY fine with TM2 being an esports game if it becomes that naturally.

and it's not good for anyone.

That's opinion. I think you meant to say, "its not good for the people who only want to play TMN and not try TM2."

no that's not what i meant. but nice try.

huge discussion in here .. took me a while to read everything

the only reason TM2 can become an esports game, is if the Nations players move over to it. Which ain't gonna happen regardless of how much money Ubisoft and Nadeo pumps into it.

hm. pretty arrogant statement you make here. Why can't tm2 become a popular esports-game without nations players joining/support? Maybe all the new players and the joining ones from tmuf will found a new esport-basis for tm2.

see above.

[w1lla]

This topic should be closed or posts should be removed.

Please make a topic in offtopic to rant off how good a game should be or not be in esports.

This topic doesnt talk about esports or nations but a tournament....

So if moderators read this please shut this topic or move posts.

[rocc]

Unity will come from that spirit, not from fear! [Hylis]
I don't understand why you have any existancial fear about TMNF [Insomnia]
I think that the fear makes the barrier and the split. [Hylis]
Why so fearful? [Ls777]

FrostBeule's problem is fear, we clearly see that now.
You are afraid that TMN might loose it's importance. You are afraid of the new. You are an conservative blocking and hating everything that might harm the old, established system - your system, that means you alot, maybe everything. And what do you do? You are too lazy to adapt yourself to the new and give it a single chance. As I posted before: "You don't want to give TM2 any chance to prove itself."
And what is the result of your fear? In your blind fury you insult the leader of Nadeo calling him: "megalomaniac"; that he'd "poop all over it (the legacy)"; that TM2 "will just create a major s********"; and a few more inappropriate things.


How arrogant!?

Hylis worte your realname in order to show you, that you are actually writing to an individual like you and me.
Don't you realize what TM² and the whole project "TM" means to the developpers? And you blame them that they'd give a f*** about what happens to their "baby"(TMN).

How degrading must that be, when you, as a developer read that, about something that means you alot, maybe everything.

As I said before: Your judgment is soaked with fear. And you are projecting this fear into someone who wants your best. Shame on you!

[FrostBeule]

Unity will come from that spirit, not from fear! [Hylis]
I don't understand why you have any existancial fear about TMNF [Insomnia]
I think that the fear makes the barrier and the split. [Hylis]
Why so fearful? [Ls777]

FrostBeule's problem is fear, we clearly see that now.
You are afraid that TMN might loose it's importance. You are afraid of the new. You are an conservative blocking and hating everything that might harm the old, established system - your system, that means you alot, maybe everything. And what do you do? You are too lazy to adapt yourself to the new and give it a single chance. As I posted before: "You don't want to give TM2 any chance to prove itself."
And what is the result of your fear? In your blind fury insult the leader of Nadeo calling him: "megalomaniac"; that he'd "poop all over it (the legacy)"; that TM2 "will just create a major shitstorm"; and a few more inappropriate things.

How arrogant!?

i am not afraid of the new. i just don't want the new. i am focused on esports. im focused on football. i don't want nor do i NEED to change that. how many times must i explain this? as i said, i will play TM2, but i won't play it as an esports game. i already have my esports game, and i love it. sure i might be a bit "straight to the point" in my arguments, but like i said, i feel like Florent is insulting me, so im just insulting back. i realize this is kind of childish of me, and ill try to improve in that matter =)

listen, i think ive said my piece and i think the best post was made by Korre a couple of pages back. that one should explain the core of what im trying to say. so i think we're pretty much done here.

[SiH13]

Wait, what? 7 pages already?
Come on..

[russianx]

When a player discusses a game with the game developer, it is natural that opinions will not be the same.
I agree both with Frost and Florent, but changes will come no matter what we say now. Esport will follow the right way, tomorrow or in 10 years. It's just the way it is.

THE END

[Knutselmaaster]

Yup, in my opinion this is basicly a very healthy discussion, although there is a shameless lack of respect here and there.
Let's switch from the "Frostbeule against the world" to a more polite and open minded TM² and E-sports discussion in a general way, without loosing the subject from the o.p.

The worlds first Tournament in Trackmania 2 will be on the worlds biggest LAN party "Dreamhack summer" this year! 18-21th of June 2011
See the link: http://www.dreamhack.se/DHS11/2011/06/0 ... ckmania-2/

Not to agree and discussing that is a good thing, but disrespecting other people because they don't agree is a bad thing.

[Ls777]

ofc im judging it. i know it wont be Nations 2, so it wont be esports for me. it will probably tho be a very good game. listen, they can obviously try, i just don't think anyone is going to gain anything by pushing a game like this forcefully to become an esports game, when there is already an esports game is is established with teams sponsors events and famous players. it's not about being rude, it's about being smart.

you have to understand, Nations has finally after some years started to become rooted in the esports scene. this means we got several very known organizations that supports Nations players to go to competitions by sponsoring them. this development is increasing every day and we continue to gain respect from the traditional esports communities. it doesn't make any sense to ruin that by having another game put in its place forcefully. sure im COMPLETELY fine with TM2 being an esports game if it becomes that naturally.

Alright. While I can see your points, and you do have good points, I still feel that your stance is unreasonable.
I get that YOU may not want to see TM2 as a new esports game. And thats understandable. But according to your own poll 11 people were willing to consider moving to TM2. Like I said before, nobodies forcing you to move to TM2, and I highly doubt that the tmn community will be severely effected, if at all, by tm2 being a competition there.