The worlds First Tournament in Trackmania 2

[FrostBeule]

ofc im judging it. i know it wont be Nations 2, so it wont be esports for me. it will probably tho be a very good game. listen, they can obviously try, i just don't think anyone is going to gain anything by pushing a game like this forcefully to become an esports game, when there is already an esports game is is established with teams sponsors events and famous players. it's not about being rude, it's about being smart.

you have to understand, Nations has finally after some years started to become rooted in the esports scene. this means we got several very known organizations that supports Nations players to go to competitions by sponsoring them. this development is increasing every day and we continue to gain respect from the traditional esports communities. it doesn't make any sense to ruin that by having another game put in its place forcefully. sure im COMPLETELY fine with TM2 being an esports game if it becomes that naturally.

Alright. While I can see your points, and you do have good points, I still feel that your stance is unreasonable.
I get that YOU may not want to see TM2 as a new esports game. And thats understandable. But according to your own poll 11 people were willing to consider moving to TM2. Like I said before, nobodies forcing you to move to TM2, and I highly doubt that the tmn community will be severely effected, if at all, by tm2 being a competition there.

again, ive already answered to this. read my previous posts =) i dont wanna repeat myself again.

[ionian]

I've followed this discussion and although it seems to have blown itself out now, I just wanted to add a couple of points:

It strikes me that FB has a valid concern about this particular type of competition potentially losing money from the TMN eSports scene. However, a sponsor's money is not a right - if someone comes along with a product that gives that sponsor more visibility, then of course they will move on. This will happen whether Nadeo make another game or not; surely it is up to the TMN eSports community to ensure that they have continued sponsorship and viable financial rewards for their competitions, and a system that is (as much as possible) protected from the release of new games.

The issue about Stadium being better or more suited to eSports is opinion, and I don't want to get in to that. However, from Hylis' comments (comparing the game to tennis surfaces) Nadeo do not share Frostbuele's opinion on the nature of the game, so arguing about this is acdemic - Hylis is going to take the franchise in the best direction for Nadeo, that's just the way it is. If anyone want's to change his mind on this, I'd suggest not going with insults personally - we have a saying in English: "You catch more flys with honey", I hope that's understandable

[Ls777]

again, ive already answered to this. read my previous posts =) i dont wanna repeat myself again.

ive already looked through your posts, and I disagree with you. Looks like we will just agree to disagree.

[Knutselmaaster]

Now, what i really want to know is if there will be somekind of video coverage of the event.
I would really love to see a very skilled player playing the game for the first time, and the evolution of his playing skills within the few days of the event, not even to mention the massive amount of gameplay videos that can be shot there.

[wiidesire-2]

Now, what i really want to know is if there will be somekind of video coverage of the event.
I would really love to see a very skilled player playing the game for the first time, and the evolution of his playing skills within the few days of the event, not even to mention the massive amount of gameplay videos that can be shot there.

+1

but I think it will be like the Gameone Interview , they were not allowed to make any ingame footage. But I hope cameras will be allowed at that tournament, because the e3 expo is already over and then the beta is coming..^^

also any news about the beta footage? Are you allowed to film content from the beta and then release it on youtube? ( or maybe after closed beta is finished) ?

[Yrp360]

I'm not an expert in the eSports world...but :

It seems like NADEO/Ubisoft decided to promote their future game by organizing a competition on it. In facts, that's deeply logical because of TMN history : "You all know TMN, now take a look at what we've done yet !".

But I'm not the meaning that doing this will "push" TMN out of the eSports scene. Finally, the most important thing that counts in the balance is the audience of the soft. If TMN stand as it is right know, i'm not feared about his future in the eSports. And like the "Gamers Assembly" in France, it's not impossible to have two TM at the same time in eSports (already etablished analogy with Counter Strike).

In fact, I just can't point out the sence of the debate here

[Bergie]

Now, what i really want to know is if there will be somekind of video coverage of the event.
I would really love to see a very skilled player playing the game for the first time, and the evolution of his playing skills within the few days of the event, not even to mention the massive amount of gameplay videos that can be shot there.

I cant say I am skilled in TMUF and its environments, but I will attend DHS for a sponsor of my team (Western Digital, come and say hi to me at their booth^^) and I'll give Tm2 a shot at the same time:)

[Behi95]

Yoow..

Well Frostbeule your only problem is that you think that tm2 will be more popular than tmnf! You get much money at those competitions. Thats your main problem..

[chaosbox_foremost]

Ooooooooooukey... so, let's see,


Ubisoft/Nadeo are a company working in the videogames industry. Everyone is aware of this, right?

First things first, Nadeo was a single independent company before, so if they merged with Ubisoft, that probably means one of the following:
- They were running out of money to support themselves in a short or long term preview;
- The games they had/have weren't going to support them for much longer (don't forget their main games were the TM versions);
- They needed a new way to keep the development team, the games and the overall project alive;

In the meantime, they were acquired by Ubisoft and the'm big boss's dudes, probably said something like that: "My dear colleagues, you guys have made a wonderful work with these Trackmania Series. How can they make us richer?"
Ubisoft probably doesn't even care about the other games that Nadeo has produced, but the TM series is obviously the most precious and valuable one, so this is where they focus.

Why do I say this? Look at Ubisoft games... They are aaaaaaaaaaall casual. Assassin's Creed is probably their main source of revenue and it's a 100% casual game and it will always be, even with those new multi player versions. Why they do this? Because it's the fastest, easiest, oldest and most practical way of making money in the videogames industry. You make a game, it's freaking fun, it sells, people pay their bills, have food on the table, everything's cool.


Now, how does this apply to Trackmania and this particular situation? Simple. Canyon is (I assume?) probably one of the environments from the paid version of TM that received the best feedback from the community. As such, they assumed "hmm, if they like this one best, this is probably the version that will make us more money in the short term which is what we now need to survive in these series".

First of all, in case my assumption is correct, this is where they failed (or not) in the first place, because if there are soooooooo many more players in TMN (Stadium environment), the 1st TM2 environment being in Stadium would probably mean a more fast, stable and secure revenue. Why? Because the majority of the community already plays it, they already know it is fun, they already like it, and there are some people that actually need it in order for their various projects, marketing strategies and even sponsored clans to work properly. Besides the community it has, if the game brought something new to Stadium, bringing all those players that know of the game but didn't think it was that fun, could - more - easily be persuaded to seek out the game.

The "why" they chose to make Canyon their first is still a riddle to me, but hey ... what's done is done.


Since that is done anyway, now they need to make fast money out of the game. Don't forget that Nadeo and their games are probably like a department in Ubisoft, as they were bought by them and well... they own them in a way.
If they need to make fast money, the easiest way is to do that in the world's most known, most shared, most viewed and with more participants than any other - Dreamhack. And it is even in the summer... Seems like the perfect opportunity.

Could they have made it inside a stand (even if it's a big one) and have some sexy girls showing the game off and stuff? Yes they could... Would that give them more visibility and fame than having the game as a tournament where all the 10xxx participants can attend and giving out some money as prize? Well, duh, ofc it wouldn't.

So Frostbeule, I think that the idea that they could have made it like something in a stand for people to try it out is out of the way, right? This is the most efficient way for they to promote and attract people to the game and that's what they're going to do because, i'm not sure if you noticed, but they are a company... they are not just some eSports dudes that like to make some random projects and include tournaments and stuff.

They are a company and therefore, they need money to survive. Don't forget that, ever...


Now, what we have to judge here and I think it should be the main issue is that, Trackmania Nations, which is a game specially developed for eSports, should have its place in Dreamhack above TM2 and, specially, with more prize money than a game that should be casual (at least in its launch). Why? Because since 2006 that TMN has naturally developed into an 100% eSports game. That is a very important deal! It has naturally developed into an eSports game and what TM2 Marketeers are doing is to force TM2 into an eSports game which are 2 very different things and ways to promote a game.

In my opinion, that is the issue here, that Nadeo/Ubisoft are forcing the game into an eSports, Prized status, which is something that TMN did naturally and on its own.


So now, you are probably asking, "right, so what would you do?".
What I think would be good for both worlds (Nations eSports Community and Nadeo/Ubisoft investors), but that would be specially good for TM2 Sponsors and Investors, which is:
- host a Trackmania Nations tournament with prize money (more than TM2) and also;
- host a TM2 Canyon tournament with prize money as well, but slightly inferior to the TMN prize.

Why is this a good thing? As of now, no one from the TMN Community will go to DHS since it has no TMN tournament. As there is no TM Tournament, there are also no qualifiers. The tournament, along with the qualifiers, as they are usually around the whole world, this should probably involve like what, 5000 people in average? Along with those comes the various streams, publicity, marketing campaigns, etc.

If you take advantage of this and connect TMN with TM2 @ DHS, then you can:
1 - Gain more publicity for both games;
2 - Gain more satisfaction from every community involving TM (tmn, tmu, etc);
3 - Put together and unify all communities in one single event;
4 - Easily make everyone try out the game (and probably like it), instead of just hating it.

At the moment, Nadeo/Ubisoft people will only receive a good amount of hate or disagreement from anyone who takes TMN as an eSports or competitive game (serious or fun) with this because, it's the "nemesis" that is killing TMN, little by little, because of mostly 2 things: first because it's taking away its place in one of the main events the world has to offer and one of the main event where the game was big and second, because it has already taken away a nice part of the community by bringing out the free zone issues.


The sad part about aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall this is that... I think that absolutely no one is aware that you can detail the most spectacular and efficient marketing strategy here, you can give out awesome, constructive suggestions and... well, Ubisoft just won't care... Why do I say this? Because I always saw the community making petitions, creating posts, sending mails, making flame wars and stuff and stuff and stuff........ and I neeeeever saw them following what the community asked.


KEEP IN MIND:
This is not Rift, my friends... Trion Worlds are great at that... They really follow what people want and their community is awesome and super fan of every game they make from now on, since they are probably the best company ever to do that. They let the people and general fans to do their work which is basically the best strategy... Why? Because it makes people happy.
They are however the only company I know that do that...

I hope that this huge text I just wrote is enough to make you all understand that this is useless ... Stop wasting your time people... Specially you, Frost.

[elitechris]

Finally... after an hour... no fight... quiet...

Actually it also annoys me a lot:
1. I think this topic had the most posts i've ever seen.
2. All of this was a stupid, hopeless debate, which didn't give us a lot.
a) Imo, FB is completely wrong, I think Nadeo want the best and so about the eSports - this will definetly bring a lot more people even if it will for money.
b) He was was right about 1 thing: the Stadium is the best for eSports, however, this is TrackMania 2, with a totally new enivronment, new type, so also as TMNF, it may have a big challenge in the community or even better (yes, even better)
c) Best regards to wiidesire, Knuts and all the others who defended TM2 value and said good, wise words

So finally, please end this topic, no more fight! In fact, I can't stand this anymore.