Gameplay discussion

[Trackmaniack]

You do make a good point--I'm not trying to knock that air control is bad...I think it can be very good to help you if you launched off a jump funny or whatnot. I'm just saying, "Don't knock it 'til you've tried it," ya know? Give the new system a chance--it may just require more practice since we haven't seen that kind of lack of control since the first TM--cuz I think the TMU-style was implemented with the TMO expansion, IIRC. Anyhow, let's at least let this game get -out- before we start talking about what's good and bad with it--technically, this game isn't even beta yet. It's still in an alpha stage.

[haenry]

Edit: BTW: I never said, that pros are immediatly perfect drivers in a very similar game.

I agree to this. And you have the best example, if you compare these two quotes by hakki and Hylis:

"There are no Air Control! This is silly, because expanding Nadeo tracks with big jumps and there is no possibility to influence the movement of vehicles in the air? What is this?"

[...]
3) it is here, but when you want to stop the movement, it is smoothed. I makes more natural move but you have to anticipated more.
[...] since the car is heavier to turn, that the air control is more subtle and that there are the smooth effects, it makes calmer move that can require more skill to do and to see. I may tweek it a little until release.

As you can see, Hakki has to learn how to use air-control the right way (we all need to do so). As long as he cannot use it properly he is no pro in TM2.
Maybe the statement of Hakki was a bit stupid, but it's okay. I guess nearly all new players in TM2 would have stated the same.
Every player needs to learn the right way of using the new air-control. It would indeed be a restriction of the creativity of the map builders, if no one learns it. But at this point I am pretty sure Nadeo makes everything right

Strange text.. I hope you understand it

[Mac_Matrix]

So, this system works, it's not completely bolloxed

I love when Americans use British words

And hearing that air control exists within the game but at a far subtler level ... well, it sounds like a good thing, that it's been reduced to something so subtle - something that seems capable of correcting small errors, but not strong enough to correct massive crashes as was possible in TMS and TMN

Good drivers should know how to line their cars up for jumps and shouldn't need to have the 'almighty stop-the-flying-wreck' button (aka the airbrake in TMS / nations) to back them up. Granted, the airbrake has its uses, but I learned very quickly to make use of the difference in air control in the TMO environments (btw at one point I was maybe 2nd or 3rd in the UK at stadium so I know what I'm talking about )

We'll see how the change in air behaviour works when we play the game - whether that is beta, or on release.

[fng_thatoneguy]

I'm sure it will be fun either way, but I have to admit... I entered the TrackMania world during the Nations era (and immediately went and bought TMO and TMS, etc. One of the things that hooked me was wild they got, even with the stock tracks. G-4 is the best example that comes to mind first.

Remember that one, with the immediate 180-degree turn, then accelerate through the chicane and launch off the small launch ramp out to 4 different paths ahead of you; the shortest being to the far-left and required air-brake to land properly. I thought it was a really fun element to add to an already really fun game. There were several other tracks that were built specifically to exploit that feature. I thought it was awesome.

So I'm happy to hear it will still be there some, as I think it's something that sets TrackMania apart... but I have faith that even if it's made more subtle as was said, that it will still keep the game fun. NADEO has proven successfully through 4 prior games that they know what they're doing.

I'm just glad it wasn't eliminated altogether. And like Hylis mentioned, they'll still be tweaking it before release. Good times ahead... can't wait!

[rocc]

While I was watching the Trackmania 2 Canyon Unofficial 6 Minute Compilation Trailer (nice work eyebo!) I recognized that there is a narrow offroad part beside the actual road, like in Desert. This gave me the Idea to use this narrow path to start a slide without braking and thus, loosing any speed. Bergie accidently did that at 1:07.
This could be a solution for the problem hakkiJunior described in his interview, whereas this technique might be a bit difficult:)

hakki: "I noticed in the games that you can slide in TM2 in the curves. But only at high speeds, with a slower drive I could not make it so easily."

[wiidesire-2]

the next ubisoft tv show is coming on 30.6.2011

if there will be no exclusive Interview with hylis again( as they promised already 2 month ago), I will personally go to Ubisoft germany and beat them all!!!!

[Mac_Matrix]

I'm sure it will be fun either way, but I have to admit... I entered the TrackMania world during the Nations era (and immediately went and bought TMO and TMS, etc. One of the things that hooked me was wild they got, even with the stock tracks. G-4 is the best example that comes to mind first.

I joined during the Nations era as well (I think it was... October 2006? I just realised how long I've been playing Stadium o_o) and went and found a copy of TMS pretty quickly (took a while to get it running on my garbage laptop, though)

My only worry about the drifting mechanic in TM2 is ... well, to me, it depends on the steering lock of the car at speed. My difficulty with playing other TM environments is finding the maximum point at which the car can turn without sliding - in Stadium I never had that problem, because the steering lock is so narrow at speed.

Judging from all the gameplay it seems to be easy to control the car in a drift and people have said it's faster to drift the car at speed if the corner is quite sharp. But, we'll see.

While I was watching the Trackmania 2 Canyon Unofficial 6 Minute Compilation Trailer (nice work eyebo!) I recognized that there is a narrow offroad part beside the actual road, like in Desert. This gave me the Idea to use this narrow path to start a slide without braking and thus, loosing any speed. Bergie accidently did that at 1:07.
This could be a solution for the problem hakkiJunior described in his interview, whereas this technique might be a bit difficult:)

hakki: "I noticed in the games that you can slide in TM2 in the curves. But only at high speeds, with a slower drive I could not make it so easily."

Sounds to me to be similar in effect to the rammstein drift utilized at low speed in Stadium to drift the car through hairpins; of course, this all depends on whether the corner itself is faster drifted or faster no-slide'd.

[ionian]

I'm not sure that we have established what will be the fastest method of cornering yet, especially bearing in mind the fast tracks that we have seen at E3 and DreamHack. It may all depend on the exit speed of a corner - we will have to work out which blocks are better to drift with a slower exit speed, and which are better for the traditional (no-slide) slow in, fast out approach.

Has anyone had a chance to watch actual gameplay footage with sound, and work out what happens with gear changes? Is there a drop of speed, or a slowing of acceleration?

[Zooz]

Some people where arguing that the players have to practice to be able to controle their cars perfectly. C'mon, they are pros and i dont think they have to practice alot to get their car straight enough:)

heanry, did you read that? Driving TM is driving TM. No matter if it's TMU oder TM2C. When you are a professional player, you are not just good at playing one game. Skills are not related to a specific game. Look how all the WC3 pros changed to SCII and OWND both games like hell. Did you watch my examples on YT? These happenings are not affected by a lack of skill!

For TMN pros this couldn't be less true. Because they only drive on one environment which is based around a single gimmick (using the brake to drift) they will have a hard time at first driving a car with handling that isn't based around this gimmick. Well, except for some players who are also pro in other racing games. TMU players, on the other hand, have already adapted to a variety of environments and will probably be cool with it as long as there is no analog gas

[FrostBeule]

Some people where arguing that the players have to practice to be able to controle their cars perfectly. C'mon, they are pros and i dont think they have to practice alot to get their car straight enough:)

heanry, did you read that? Driving TM is driving TM. No matter if it's TMU oder TM2C. When you are a professional player, you are not just good at playing one game. Skills are not related to a specific game. Look how all the WC3 pros changed to SCII and OWND both games like hell. Did you watch my examples on YT? These happenings are not affected by a lack of skill!

For TMN pros this couldn't be less true. Because they only drive on one environment which is based around a single gimmick (using the brake to drift) they will have a hard time at first driving a car with handling that isn't based around this gimmick. Well, except for some players who are also pro in other racing games. TMU players, on the other hand, have already adapted to a variety of environments and will probably be cool with it as long as there is no analog gas

not sure if this is some "high-level" trolling ala good ol' Zooz or not (you never know with dem smileys), but just wanna peak in that i think you're wrong. if you're pro, you're pro. what game it is doesn't matter too much as long as it's in the same sort-of genre; in this case: unrealistic racing games, and that you put in the hours. anyway im guessing you were just trolling (a single gimmick...). now, being at a pro-level at 2 different games at the same time is a whole other story and almost impossible i'd say just based on the sheer amount of time you need to put in to reach the top at anything. this is mainly why you don't see any United players being at the top of Nations for example ...and vice versa.