SSM Protest | matchmaking servers shut down

[caspa]

What fallacy are you gonna come at me with next?

Nothing, because I neither have the time nor the interest to deal with your "emotions".

While we are here on page 8 without anything solved but waisting a lot of time, in other threads with more constructive people a couple of bugs got fixed e.g. just yesterday.

I'm off again.

Cool, you added nothing to the discussion anyway. As far as I know the matchmaking servers are back up, but the original aim of SSM was a protest. Which is basically what this discussion is. I challenge you to think critically next time you decide to make a post here.

You can be positive and still express things that you dislike. It's the difference with judging.

At the same time you can be negative and still express things that you like. The only difference is you, choosing not to respond to the negative ones. And thats one of the issues I have - even if you do read every single post and think about them, theres nothing to really show us that you do. Apart from these kind of posts when you are pushed to do it.

In fact, I often say that players are nearly always right when it comes to feelings, frustrations & hopes. And I read as much as possible of it, and it helps me a lot to make the solutions myself. Because for solutions, priorites and judgements, they are are nearly always wrong, because they ignore most of the constraints and that they are not spending as much time as us on it. It's my job since years, and it includes long term strategy, technical constraint, priorities and a lot of others parameters.

I understand that, and I do recognize that most of us players have no idea what actually goes into to making/coding a game. But we are still able to identify (in our eyes) the most important things that need to be fixed. You are the developers, we are the consumers, so this forum is as far as our concerns can come. Have you heard of the mantra "complain early, complain often"? That is the best stance that we, the consumers, can take

And if you like to really would like to understand, like someone would explain some science that you know less, it's mainly because we are taking time to make the things as they should be. I said it many times that there were technical issues in B2 stuff that needed first to be consolidated. Maybe we would have kept more players to betray this, like some games would often do just to make more seducing graphics, like removing the customisation or make a quality netcode. For me, it's short term, and I am not here for easy short term. I am here to build a solid FPS for the years to come. And I know that it's simply our unbeatable ally to reach the players on the long run. And my trust of the situation comes from that, and a little from players that are still there in spite of saying they would leave already a long time ago

And this is where I really think that the problem lies. You keep saying, "I'm building for the future" - but as far as we know, you don't acknowledge our warnings. Those short term compromises (e.g. leaving beta2 mechanics as they were) could have resulted in a lot more players still playing than there is right now. Which means a much bigger pool of players to draw feedback from.

The main thing I want to know is, what is more valuable to you?
Hypothetical situation: In a years time, you have completed everything you wanted to and the game fits your longterm vision. But despite this, there are no more than 20 people logging onto the game each day.

Or

During that year, you made some of these short term compromises to appease the small community you have left. Players are happier, and more likely to bring their friends to the game. The game may still not be the way that you want it, but there is a strong "hardcore" community that will most likely continue to keep playing. The difference here is that you still have a community to bounce ideas off of.

I just really want to know what the real long-term goal with this game is. And PLEASE, don't use CEO-speak like you usually do in your posts and blogs.

(For an example of what i mean, look at this: http://imgur.com/rT4yuwG - it actually says nothing...)

[Hylis]

Read the power up post if you would like to know some of the mid term goal, and hello planet to understand more the long term.

It's wrong to say that you are capable to identify what needs to be fixed. You can only identify what think you would like to be fixed. If Id Software made CS with Quake, a lot of people would have disagree, but it does not mean they would be wrong to do it. For example, in a previous walljumps, it was dependent of the hidden geometry, meaning that if an invisible triangle, part of a quad, would split a wall in half, that you would have a different resulting effect depending of it. It's absurd according to already huge number of variations (impossible to learn) and more especially with the newly introduced embedded items, since diversity is endless. It reduces the number of exploits that can be made to make a move, and so the diversity of the moves. I already explained it. After, the goal of power up is to give more power to the players, through gameplay, actions, modes & competitions. We build on solid foundations and rome was not made in a day. And if you believe that it would be faster to avoid to make the progressive jump at all when players where against it, then I am not sure we would have moved so much toward the future. When I showed it to three top level players that came at the studio to test it, they told me that it was really a bad idea and that we should not add it. The conservatism of many makes things difficult to sort out. It's like for obstacle, where some where divided with FJ or EJ. For map mapping, it's a bad idea to keep these things possible, so you have to nerf them. Only after you can add more moves and diversity. And this is why we are going to add even more things for our own vision of a good obstacle mode, that I am confident to be able to make great with players that are giving us feedbacks and with positive players I will be capable to discuss with. And if you don't trust us to be capable, in spite of having made what you like in first place, then it means we were just lucky. Stupid, but lucky.

By the way, with a daily peak of 2000 simultaneous players, I don't think there is a need for you to to talk about 20 players coming in the day. I don't say it's enough for the destination, but it's enough for the journey toward it. So, I can go full speed toward the destination without useless conservatism to keep bugs in walljumps.

I think I know what I am doing because I am reading post from players. But it does not mean they can understand what we do, and even less to know what we should. The thing they know, and I always agree with this, it's their frustrations or hopes. And when they judge, or are negative, it's their problem they need to fix.

Have you heard of the mantra "complain early, complain often"?

Let's do it: Being positive is better than being negative, end of story.

[caspa]

Read the power up post if you would like to know some of the mid term goal, and hello planet to understand more the long term.

Thats what I was trying to get at - the latest "power up" post is a lot clearer than previous posts that you've made, so i'm happy with that. Hello Planet 4 is riddled with CEO-speak though.

It's absurd according to already huge number of variations (impossible to learn) and more especially with the newly introduced embedded items, since diversity is endless. It reduces the number of exploits that can be made to make a move, and so the diversity of the moves.

It wasn't impossible to learn. Did you ignore everything that has been said about beta2 walljumps? People were most pissed off because we had (despite you saying that it is impossible) almost mastered the manipulation of walljumps ourselves. It was on its way to becoming a positive, core part of the game play.

Its interesting that you refer to these moves as exploits though. Its a testament to the creativity of players that we can come up with, figure out and begin to master these things.

It's like for obstacle, where some where divided with FJ or EJ. For map mapping, it's a bad idea to keep these things possible, so you have to nerf them. Only after you can add more moves and diversity. And this is why we are going to add even more things for our own vision of a good obstacle mode, that I am confident to be able to make great with players that are giving us feedbacks and with positive players I will be capable to discuss with. And if you don't trust us to be capable, in spite of having made what you like in first place, then it means we were just lucky. Stupid, but lucky.

Flyjump and Escalatorjump were awesome. They were discovered by people willing to push the engine to its limits and see what was possible. Instead of rewarding them for that, you took it away. I was a big big presence in the obstacle community, and it wouldn't be wrong to say that I was the "pro elite" player with the highest obstacle skill. I spent much of my time trying to figure out how to incorporate these obstacle aspects into my Elite skillset. FJ and EJ were things that could be learned - granted, there were people that didn't want to put the time and effort into doing so. So why punish the ones that did? Its just another form of selective hearing

What irks me more about what you've said is that you are continuing on with your philosophy of what makes a good obstacle mode. You've essentially taken over control of a user made, user driven titlepack. Which directly contradicts you wanting to give more power to the users.

By the way, with a daily peak of 2000 simultaneous players, I don't think there is a need for you to to talk about 20 players coming in the day. I don't say it's enough for the destination, but it's enough for the journey toward it. So, I can go full speed toward the destination without useless conservatism to keep bugs in walljumps.

Thanks for not reading what I wrote. I'm talking about a hypothetical situation, I wasn't saying that there are only 20 people that acctually login to the game every day (as its quite clearly more.. not by much though!). Read it again and then answer my question.

But I would like you to elaborate on these "2000 simultaneous players". What time of day are these figures reached? Are you talking about Maniaplanet users? Cause that would be cheating. What are the real player numbers for Shootmania? The number is no way near 2000... I don't know what kind of tools you use to come up with these figures

Let's do it: Being positive is better than being negative, end of story.

You're gonna hate this, but no, you're wrong again. Being negative is an evolutionary advantage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativity_bias). End of.

[Hylis]

Making a walljumps "random" since you can not know what is under the wall would make it good, is wrong. If requiring the map maker to make wall too high everywhere to avoid EJ to break their maps, is wrong. I said it many times and it shows that it's quite useless to try to explain to whom who don't want to understand. I also said that, yes, the walljump should be improved to be "funnier" It's part of the plan during Power Up! And I know many players will be angry during it because I saw angry players when we introduced progressive jump, rocket deny, autofocus instead of ping, microjump at more progressive scale, insta reload and even wall jumps. What do I expect when I introduce the update this week, that will make some of the biggest change ever? Is it better that we do nothing since some will be angry if we do nothing as well? So, I am just moving forward with the same knowledge that made me do the gameplay that you say was good and that you don't still explain how I did if I am so bad as described by some.

Thanks for the link "Humans have a very hard time enjoying the positive attributes of an object or event when there is a negative attribute clinging to that same object or event." And ok, go evolve quickly then. End.

[mine3]

once you start to want to hear negativity, many will stop it.
make a hatelist

[caspa]

Making a walljumps "random" since you can not know what is under the wall would make it good, is wrong. If requiring the map maker to make wall too high everywhere to avoid EJ to break their maps, is wrong. I said it many times and it shows that it's quite useless to try to explain to whom who don't want to understand. I also said that, yes, the walljump should be improved to be "funnier" It's part of the plan during Power Up! And I know many players will be angry during it because I saw angry players when we introduced progressive jump, rocket deny, autofocus instead of ping, microjump at more progressive scale, insta reload and even wall jumps. What do I expect when I introduce the update this week, that will make some of the biggest change ever? Is it better that we do nothing since some will be angry if we do nothing as well? So, I am just moving forward with the same knowledge that made me do the gameplay that you say was good and that you don't still explain how I did if I am so bad as described by some.

There are other ways to prevent escalator jump than just making high walls. A bit of playing around with the mapeditor can fix that. And yes, there will always be people who don't like new changes. Ultimately its up to you to decide which direction the game goes in, but don't give us the illusion that we can make a meaningful difference

Thanks for the link "Humans have a very hard time enjoying the positive attributes of an object or event when there is a negative attribute clinging to that same object or event." And ok, go evolve quickly then. End.

Sorry, to be honest it probably wasn't the best example for what I wanted to say. What i meant was, being negative isn't always a bad thing Can you understand that?