Pc Jeux Summary

[rachovolker]

Having a monthly data transfer limit, I certainly would prefer a boxed version!

Plus: I just love to have something solid (CD/DVD Box) and not just some virtual stuff sitting on my HD/USB.

[Trackmaniack]

Heh, the main thing that sucks for me, is that I tend to be hard on my computers... and so if I DL TM2, and then my computer crashes, while I could DL it again on a new computer, that's between 4 and 7 GB of downloading...a full day on our networks. And, then, what if Ubi puts in a download limit? What happens if I exhaust that limit?

[Xymph]

None (or very little) of that happened in TMN ESWC, thanks to StarForce

I don't think any of that has anything to do with Starforce.

I disagree, as far as I know the TMN ESWC executable wasn't hacked, or at least not to the extent that cheat tools were developed and widely used. I can't imagine any other reason for that than StarForce being notoriously hard to compromise at the time.

You think online cheating didn't happen in that game because those capable of doing it showed restraint?

If someone is going to cheat, they're going to crack it anyway.

Cracking a game's copy protection to freely distribute it is one thing, having no protection at all so that hacking the executable to produce cheat tools becomes very easy is another. The latter case certainly applies to TMF, considering the multiple tools that exist, and the rampant cheating performed with them.

Yes, all protection is eventually broken, but the longer it takes the better.

Adding more DRM measures to hurt people who are going to bypass it is not the answer.

Obviously DRM shouldn't hurt paying customers, and I'm certainly no proponent of any draconian schemes.

All I said is that some kind of anti-hacking measures would be welcome to prevent or reduce online cheating. It doesn't have to be DRM, but I'm no expert in these matters so I don't know what other options exist.
Otherwise, if there is going to be an online records system for TM2 like Dedimania provides for TMF and older games (no, I don't know if Slig is planning that), it's quickly going to get clogged up again with cheated records. For TMF, the main reason Dedimania record lists aren't a complete mess is because I'm cleaning them up daily, but that takes me several dozen hours each month, and I don't think I'm going to do that for TM2. Just sayin'.

Just btw, in TMF there's no boosting, and in TMN ESWC there's so many. I hate boosting just as cheating.

Boosting exploited a design flaw in Rounds mode. That's completely different from hacking the executable to build cheat tools that give their users unfair advantages in actual races.

[Trackmaniack]

My proposal...active mods with functional ban tools within the servers themselves, rather than having to wait for Nadeo to validate a ban. If you find someone cheating (that's spelled C H E A T I N G, not just really fast ), then you should be able to boot them. Because DRM was originally implemented in order to protect against piracy, and AFAIK, you can't pirate TMF. Well, you can, but you get neutered copies that are barely functional, and you can forget online play (which is where I spend 99% of my time)

[djthom]

I just hope, that Ubisoft won't mess to much in Nadeo's work. I think they are able to find their own possibilities of preventing cheating in TM²

[Knutselmaaster]

Booting cheaters or banning them on one server is just not a solution.
There are hundreds, maybe even thousands of servers, they'll just go elsewhere.
It really is necessary to put a decent anti cheat system in a game.
But DRM and anti-cheating is not the same.
DRM is against piracy.
Starforce did both if i understand well, but there was a lot of controversy about that.
There are other anti cheats that seem to perform rather well, like punkbuster.
(i know wikipedia is not the best of sources, but google for yourself if you want more info)
If a mass multiplayer online game wants to succeed, and remain popular for a long time, an anti cheat is just primordial.
If a game developer is updating the server software, that is just is not enough, for more than one reason.
-A lot of server admins don't keep their servers up to date.
-A game developer has (should have) better things to do.
-Cheats will be adapted to the server softwares update all the time.
etc

Ubi is not loved for their DRM policy, but it is also understandable that a developer/publisher tries to protect his income.
I'm sure that Nadeo will do its best to find the best possible solution, that they have their thing to say about it, that it is not only Ubi's decision.

Like all other speculations about the coming games, we'll just have to wait and see.

[Naimisrepus]

I disagree, as far as I know the TMN ESWC executable wasn't hacked, or at least not to the extent that cheat tools were developed and widely used. I can't imagine any other reason for that than StarForce being notoriously hard to compromise at the time.

You don't know because you've never looked for it. And truthfully, neither have I.

However I can do a google search and find TMN ESWC torrents, which I will not link or mention any further to avoid wrath from the mods. Which means it had to have been cracked somehow by someone. And Starforce has been cracked for ages, I'm honestly amazed you seem to be the only one who doesn't know this. It was cracked way back when people were having problems with it bricking their CD/DVD drives.

You think online cheating didn't happen in that game because those capable of doing it showed restraint?

No. In fact, that's nothing like what I said

at all

Please don't put words in my mouth if you don't understand what I am saying.

Obviously DRM shouldn't hurt paying customers, and I'm certainly no proponent of any draconian schemes.

Then you shouldn't be supporting Starforce. Starforce is notorious for completely screwing up the computers of perfectly legitimate customers. For a short time, Starforce DRM was even making DVD and CD drives unusable.

Even the wiki, the words straight from the communities mouth, lists Starforce as being unstable and causing problems with some computers.

All I said is that some kind of anti-hacking measures would be welcome to prevent or reduce online cheating.

Okay, that's fine.

My problem is with what system we decide is "appropriate" for this game. I don't think we should scrap everything. However, I don't think adding DRM layers for the heck of it is the solution either. I'm not a big fan of Starforce or Punkbuster (Starforce being an instance of things that never uninstalls unless you jump through hoops to uninstall it and Punkbuster being an awfully made program that creates shadow-users and leave random processes laying around).

Not to mention Punkbuster is also notorious for being absolute garbage at stopping actual cheating and having a tendency to attack perfectly legitimate players for things as ridiculous as ping averages.

Which brings me back to my original point: If people are going to cheat, they're going to do it whether you like it or not. Please don't hurt the end-user with insane anti-cheat measures and DRM because it may stop a few of the soft-core cheaters who don't want to run a bunch of various cracks. The game is not made for these people. Don't cater to them.

I personally liked the anti-cheat/copy system that ArmA and Operation Flashpoint implemented. In which if it detected you have an illegitimate copy, it would introduce various game-changing mechanics into it specifically meant to screw over the pirate. Without leaving any error messages or telling said pirate that this happened. Things such as

-Stumbling around like a drunk
-Randomly dying (a lot)
-Random Explosions
-Missions randomly fail
-Teleportation (usually into minefields or barbed wire)
-Annoying Russian Pop Music played on a loop

It's the kind of anti-cheat system that I think more games could learn from. It was non-invasive and really hilarious to listen to all the pirates flood the tech support forums wondering why they keep dying and why their helicopters and planes randomly quit working.

[djthom]

Ok, that sounds funny, but I think it's REALLY mean. They just should ban the accout resp. the game version

[tcq]

Ok, that sounds funny, but I think it's REALLY mean. They just should ban the accout resp. the game version

It is meant to be mean and this is right. But if they simply ban an account, how do you know that this person isn't simply going to get a new cracked one?

Edit: I think i remember a nice anti cheat method in one of the settler episodes. I think the gold mine was producing pigs or so ^^

[djthom]

Ok, if you see it that way... The guy then plays with a game version, that pawns him all the time (maybe even without him knowing it), so it COULD be an idea...