New stadium underground blocks - what the hell?!

[SapphiroN]

Hello guys. I finally purchased TM2 Stadium in hope to play with the new blocks and interact with the stadium 2 community (which actually exists). However, when trying out the new blocks, I was actually absolutely shocked - totally facehammered - by the fact, that Nadeo made dirt the dominant surface in these underground blocks. What.. the.. f***?!

First of all, for those who do not know me, I am a long time stadium mapper, have been since year 2007 when TMN ESWC was a thing. I have spent countless hours on the editor and know it absolutely inside out. Being so experienced with the old stadium editor, I was excited by the opportunities these new blocks provided. I was also excited about these underground blocks: they would be a great addition to compact near-the-ground tech style, probably my favorite genre.

But Nadeo.. What did you do.. Let me tell you: You absolutely killed all the potential this block could have. All of it. How did you do it? You made it undriveable. Simply as that. By making only 1/3 of the surface have grip, you minimized the opportunities this block could provide. Driving corners is way, waaaay too hard and for no apparent reason. If these blocks had 100% grip, they would have been a really fun addition to the block scheme, and they would be way more usable and practical in both fun and competitive mapping. As long as they stay this way: I don't see much use of it.

If ANY of Nadeo's representive is reading this and was involved in making or supporting this decision, could you answer my simple question: Why?

[Rots]

Well that's "just" your opinion. Undriveable? you are wrong.

Hundreds of mappers I encountered did very good maps (of all genres) with these new blocks. If you don't feel like using those underground mixed blocks on your maps, simply don't use them. ¿The new blocks could have more potential? Maybe, but it's done this way and you have to adapt. THIS is the way it works unless you want to see the same blocks on all the maps x100.

[SapphiroN]

Well that's "just" your opinion. Undriveable? you are wrong.

Hundreds of mappers I encountered did very good maps (of all genres) with these new blocks. If you don't feel like using those underground mixed blocks on your maps, simply don't use them. ¿The new blocks could have more potential? Maybe, but it's done this way and you have to adapt. THIS is the way it works unless you want to see the same blocks on all the maps x100.

I don't like your attitude one little bit.

Hell yeah you can make good tracks even with inferior blocks. Just because something is good, it doesn't mean it can't be better. I am quite a perfectionist and I think if there is a flaw in a system, it can be fixed or improved. Telling people basically to shut up or telling them to "not use blocks if you don't like it" is a dangerous attitude and is in the way of progression and improvement.

Telling me to adapt? Sure, I could adapt, but instead of silently being quiet about a wasted opportunity, I find it better to speak about it and find if people agree me, so Nadeo could reconsider their perspective (in this case, add variations of underground blocks without dirt). None of your arguments suggest that the current blocks are better from an objective standpoint than my suggested variation. Even your last point proves this, because the reason of block becoming overused is it's practicality and good design, so if you see a block getting used a lot it means it is well designed. The feeling of getting bored of it is like listening a good song too many times and eventually getting bored of it - it doesn't change the fact that the song is good.

Listen, I really love Trackmania, and I want it to be the best possible racing game there is. By pointing out these "mistakes", I try to help making it a better game. My first post may have seemed to be a pointless rant, but it has a very strong constructive message behind it, as does this post.

[PapyChampy]

I think you may be jumping to conclusions a little too fast.

Learn to master those blocks and the gameplay behind them, before saying that they need to be reworked.

[Rots]

Learn to master those blocks and the gameplay behind them, before saying that they need to be reworked.

That's my point when I talk about adaptation.

And I'm sorry if I sound rude in my post but I have the feeling that you speak in name of the comunity and just wanted to point out that it was YOUR opinion here. Sure some others can agree with you but generally, after a bunch of years without any new block, people is happy with these new blocks.

But please, keep on giving your opinion, noone is

Telling people basically to shut up

[Demented]

I don't like your attitude one little bit.

I'm not fond of attitude like ↓

I was actually absolutely shocked - totally facehammered - by the fact, that Nadeo made dirt the dominant surface in these underground blocks. What.. the.. f***?!

To be honest, I wasn't aware that those new block were mostly dirt. Knowing that now makes me actually want to buy the environment even more. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I do respect yours too but not the way you presented it. Some people do like driving on dirt.

[Omnixor]

it's not dirt...



and, everyone, why you always look at the way something is said, instead of looking at the thing itself? sapph is too famous and respectable on TMX to just not care about what he thinks imho.

[SapphiroN]

I must admit I might have approached the issue too aggressively, for you see, this game is my greatest gaming passion. My point, however, still remains.

I must agree with Omnixor, nobody still addressed this issue with proper arguments, saying things like "I like dirt" is cool and all but doesn't contribute much to the topic.

While testing the blocks a bit more in depth I can't say anymore that they are useless. They are quite fine for some really tricky techy corners. However.. Why am I forced to make these sections tricky? What if I want to make a chilled underground section without the constant fear of loosing grip in the corners? I can not do that, because the editor doesn't provide blocks with full grip, and in my mapping philosophy making a track easy to finish yet hard to master is important. These full grip blocks should absolutely be the number one priority instead of these narrow variations. It would be fun to have some narrow sections mixed in the underground while having mostly open corners. Having a full grip surface should be an obvious standard for the underground section. Anything tricky should be just bonus.

Here's another like-minded reaction from a respected member of the TMX community, v.neck:

Unfortunately these turns are not large enough. Every single of these blocks is based on a thin road-line surrounded by two layers of dirt. Both the road and the dirt have the same mechanics as the usual road, or dirt street.

That leads to a big problem. Having this incredible thin line renders all these blocks very useless at higher speeds. You can of course use them to great effect on tech and dirt tracks, but FS tracks will suffer by the narrowness of these block, making only low speed starts, and straight up's and down's possible. Overall I was, and am very disappointed by the usefulness of these blocks.

E: A thing to add is that I disagree with the part about tech being okay for the reasons I mentioned above.

[Rots]

"I think loop blocks are way too big and useless at slow-med speeds for tech tracks... Loop blocks have to be reworked."

(consider this as the same situation with the new blocks... What would you say?)

Learn to master those blocks and the gameplay behind them, before saying that they need to be reworked.

That's my point when I talk about adaptation.

[Omnixor]

I'd say that loops are useful for fullspeed tracks, while these underground blocks can only be used episodically, e.g. for transitions.