Maniaplanet Forum

Hello Shootmania-Community,

I am writing here because of the latest "ban" I recieved from the ESL Website (http://www.esl.eu/de/shootmania/player/2721269/)
As you may see, I got banned for "Cheating during a Cup Match"
(against CPLAY: http://www.esl.eu/eu/shootmania/elite/3 ... /29054028/)

If you dont care about the hole story, stop reading here and leave the site without any insulting comment!
Makes it more easy for the Forum-Admins here.

As you may also know, in Shootmania there is no seperate Anti-Cheat-Tool like "Punkbuster" or "ESL Wire".
Therefor the "banning method" was a different one. I got informed from the ESL Master League Admin from Shootmania, that they will watch the Replays of the Livestream of that match and he got 5 Players / Admins with him, and they will make their decision, if they think it was a cheat or if it was a "clean" replay.
Normally you have to get real replays from ingame, so you can watch in different views, in slow motion and stuff like that!

I just recieved the ban without any further comment and information. After there were some more people insulting me in the past weeks, I was about to go to get some help to my side, to proof that I am a fair player without any kind of cheat!

Feel free to watch the streams / replays by yourself, and make your own opinion about it.
I have shown those replays to some friends, oldschool players and now to you guys - but everyone just said so far: "what? you got banned for that? Is that a joke?"

Streams:
http://youtu.be/glrY1ftAVo4
-> 7:30; 13:00; 19:10

http://youtu.be/xQ6XGuxsID4
-> 8:15; 14:05; 21:00; 26:30

Replays:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r5nf2l08hh0th ... ttacks.rar
http://www.speedyshare.com/H5g...ite-Co ... Replay.Gbx
http://gfx.esl.eu/gfx/media/gr...ia/rep ... 131027.zip

The best way was to contact "hylis" for that Problem, and yes, he offered to help me, you can see the short conversation here: http://abload.de/img/hylis1t1uzc.png

That means it is possible to get a proper anti-cheat-tool for competive matches, we should look forward to get something like this working @ ESL and so on!

confirmed is, that my Shootmania ID (flamez1328) is clean and in use!
Everyone who is or was using any cheat got banned already! (hylis said that in this forum already)

Because otherwise players from 3DMAX, Lemondogs, aAa, PyroGen and so on have to worry, because every match
you play against them, they do some crazy stuff - but that has nothing to say, because many things are random in Shootmania. Shootmania is different to other FPS Games.

Another thing is, that I wrote to "Turtle Entertainment" (workers for the ESL website) about this suspect banning method these days, which I dont think is a good way to caught cheaters, because I have seen in the past many players getting banned for "replays" in other games like CS:GO, CoD and so on, without a real proof!
I hope that the ESL Admins may have a look for that issue again, and think about their decision they made so far!

I wrote this text to clear some things up, maybe I changed some minds, maybe I didn't - but that's not the main thing I tried, more I tried to explain the Community what was going on with my Ban so I dont have to explain to everyone in a different chat.

The Admins of Leetgamerz Cup and Zowie Cup said to me, that I'm still allowed to take part into their cups, because (and thats how is has to be normally) there is no proof that I was cheating.

If you got any further questions, feel free to ask. And please dont try to insult here or something like that.

kind regards,
Sven "flameZ" F.

Im from CPLAY and I appreciate your motivation.
However we @ CPLAY will not change our mind because we believe ( without proof like you say ) that you cheat.

Other arguements:
- You could have stopped cheating after some matches & then ask NADEO to check ur PC.
- NADEO's Anti-Cheat isnt perfect. ( Perfect example is CSGO where there are a lot of cheaters while Valve has an anti-cheat called VAC )
- I trust the opinion of the ESL admins & the other players that helped ( like Sens & Luxxiz ). It took 3weeks to make a decision so everybody watched everything in slowmotion. The conclusion was that you cheated.

The facts that no organisation ( like ESL , like LGZ ) cant actually proof that someone cheats is rediculous and , indeed, there should be some sort of good Anti-Cheat Tool so these discussion wouldnt appaear on the forums here.

But that also means that i can aimbot now, play ESL tonight, and they cant proof it ( eventho my accuracy is 100% ) because they dont have the tools to PROOF I cheat. Maybe I just was lucky that night? Does that mean I cant get a ban?
So I understand your problem/concerns and there really should be a good tool.

Also you can gain some trust back by posting stuff here on the forums and talk to Hylis. If I were you ... I would do exactly the same. Unfortunately Hylis cant help you with the ESL issue.
Hylis works at NADEO, Not ESL.

Anyways, Im still convinced you cheat and I think/hope ESL will not change their decision.

novationx wrote:Im from CPLAY and I appreciate your motivation.
However we @ CPLAY will not change our mind because we believe ( without proof like you say ) that you cheat.

That's okay, minds are free

novationx wrote:Other arguements:
- You could have stopped cheating after some matches & then ask NADEO to check ur PC.
- NADEO's Anti-Cheat isnt perfect. ( Perfect example is CSGO where there are a lot of cheaters while Valve has an anti-cheat called VAC )
- I trust the opinion of the ESL admins & the other players that helped ( like Sens & Luxxiz ). It took 3weeks to make a decision so everybody watched everything in slowmotion. The conclusion was that you cheated.

you could be right with your first 2. arguments, I cant proof something different, so we can stop discuss about those 2 points. I also trust in the opinion from oldschool players, and I have shown some of them the replays too, not streams, REAL REPLAYS - thats the only way you can watch it in slow motion, name-tags on and stuff like that, streams are just too unclear.

novationx wrote:The facts that no organisation ( like ESL , like LGZ ) cant actually proof that someone cheats is rediculous and , indeed, there should be some sort of good Anti-Cheat Tool so these discussion wouldnt appaear on the forums here.
But that also means that i can aimbot now, play ESL tonight, and they cant proof it ( eventho my accuracy is 100% ) because they dont have the tools to PROOF I cheat. Maybe I just was lucky that night?
So I understand your problem/concerns and there really should be a good tool.

totally right, I think the same at this part!

novationx wrote:Also you can gain some trust back by posting stuff here on the forums and talk to Hylis. If I were you ... I would do exactly the same. Unfortunately Hylis cant help you with the ESL issue.
Hylis works at NADEO, Not ESL.

exactly, but a real cheater wouldn't do those postings I think, because he will get himself into "publicity" and will maybe get some more insultings after that, but since I think that most SM-Players know whats "clean" and whats "cheating", I dont worry about the Streams + Replays here, because theres nothing I have to hide.

flameZ wrote:exactly, but a real cheater wouldn't do those postings I think, because he will get himself into "publicity" and will maybe get some more insultings after that, but since I think that most SM-Players know whats "clean" and whats "cheating", I dont worry about the Streams + Replays here, because theres nothing I have to hide.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying at all you cheated (I didn't watch the replays and the stream isn't good enough to judge) but that's exactly what some real cheaters are actually doing, even in real life.

flameZ wrote: exactly, but a real cheater wouldn't do those postings I think, because he will get himself into "publicity" and will maybe get some more insultings after that

really? here is a picture from your esl gallery: http://www.esl.eu/eu/shootmania/elite/3 ... ry/935600/
it's obvious to see that its you, trying to mock people calling you a cheater. please note that this is across many games, not just shootmania. From this alone its clear of your TRUE attitude and not the attitude you display on the forums when you're in hot water. Also if anyone would like to take the time to look at his guestbook: http://www.esl.eu/eu/shootmania/elite/3 ... ok/flamez/ it is riddled with accusations spanning months and games. But everyone is wrong and flamez is just really good!

About all this "oh u cant ban someone looking at a livestream" is total crap lol.. To ban someone without a tool is not uncommon, and you will be banned if it is beyond reasonable doubt that you cheat. That is, it is extremely hard to give you the benefit of the doubt considering the amount and type of shot you hit on a regular basis. Your replays were scrutinized by ESL admins and good, experienced players who have been involved in the community for a long time. These players have no reason to want you banned if you don't cheat, and for the majority of them to vote that you are guilty is enough for me and I certainly hope its enough for the admins of CPLAY, LgZ, Zowie and indeed Go4 and other ESL tournaments.

You seem to like repeating "confirmed is, that my Shootmania ID (flamez1328) is clean and in use!"
Your shootmania ID is far from clean, and indeed it is not in use in one of the biggest weekly/monthly tournaments in shootmania. Saying something repeatedly doesn't make it true.

Also going on about how you've showed your replays to some oldschool players is useless aswell.. Your use of "oldschool" is to show they are experienced and know what they are talking about? You can be oldschool and still have no clue about competitive play or illegal tweaks. Also what 'oldschool' players? So far none of them have been willing to come on the forum or your ESL profile and vouch for your innocence. Your arguements to prove you arent guilty are hollow and tbh laughable.

I'd just like to thank the admins of ESL and the players who voted for making this possible as in my eyes and the eyes of many others it was obvious that this guy wasn't clean and without you putting in the time and effort to remove someone like this from the community we would still have to put up with this nonsense. Keep up the good work.

your ESL account, regestration date: 2013

I wont waste my time to write with you.

I'm replying even it probably won't make any difference, being the caster of that match and the one year experience I've had in this game, the thought never crossed my mind that flameZ was cheating. I believe from time to time that even the players that don't usually play at the highest standard most the time, there is a chance that every now and then they play phenomenal rounds.

I know this as I have seen players, they suck most of the time but they can pull off something that looks impossible. Are they cheating? hell no - it just happens in Shootmania. [edit]iBlack for example http://youtu.be/wW_OOpSpcFk (did you know he got accused of cheating too?)

I don't think players deserve the insults and punishment that they get when this sort of thing happens especially when the cup it self doesn't require the server-side replay for disputing bans. Client-side replays are not good enough to prove a ban and especially a livestream which is streamed from across the Atlantic Ocean... oh and I forgot to mention that spectating is a little more laggy than the players playing ingame so (lag + lag = more lag). Please take that into consideration.

ESL admins cannot make their decision as these replays are simply not 'clean' anyway, you need server-side replays and the servers themselves need to be set up that way. I think the ban should lift, let the guy play ESL and don't let his reputation get ruined for a false accusation, it's stupid and only makes you look like an arsehole.

Wabbitface wrote:I'm replying even it probably won't make any difference, being the caster of that match and the one year experience I've had in this game, the thought never crossed my mind that flameZ was cheating. I believe from time to time that even the players that don't usually play at the highest standard most the time, there is a chance that every now and then they play phenomenal rounds.

I know this as I have seen players, they suck most of the time but they can pull off something that looks impossible. Are they cheating? hell no - it just happens in Shootmania.

I don't think players deserve the insults and punishment that they get when this sort of thing happens especially when the cup it self doesn't require the server-side replay for disputing bans. Client-side replays are not good enough to prove a ban and especially a livestream which is streamed from across the Atlantic Ocean... oh and I forgot to mention that spectating is a little more laggy than the players playing ingame so (lag + lag = more lag). Please take that into consideration.

ESL admins cannot make their decision as these replays are simply not 'clean' anyway, you need server-side replays and the servers themselves need to be set up that way. I think the ban should lift, let the guy play ESL and don't let his reputation get ruined for a false accusation, it's stupid and only makes you look like an arsehole.

thank you wabbit, honestly! true words from your side!

for everyone: Wabbitface is not a close friend of mine or something like that, he just got much experience in that game.

Esl have never been shy on banning people based on accusations. Even with lack of proof. I don't know what kind of proof they have and I doubt I will ever know, but at least the banned player should have the right to view this evidence. How will he defend himself otherwise?

From what I have seen on streams and replays I'm still not convinced that any illegal tools have been used.

As stated before, what client-side replays show and what the player sees differs because the replays have a smoothing effect. I have replays of myself shooting through various different objects to kill someone.

I will stay unconvinced until there is concrete proof.

flameZ wrote:your ESL account, regestration date: 2013

I wont waste my time to write with you.

Btw, this doesn't seem to have anything to do with the discussion.

plopp wrote:Esl have never been shy on banning people based on accusations. Even with lack of proof. I don't know what kind of proof they have and I doubt I will ever know, but at least the banned player should have the right to view this evidence. How will he defend himself otherwise?

From what I have seen on streams and replays I'm still not convinced that any illegal tools have been used.

As stated before, what client-side replays show and what the player sees differs because the replays have a smoothing effect. I have replays of myself shooting through various different objects to kill someone.

I will stay unconvinced until there is concrete proof.

flameZ wrote:your ESL account, regestration date: 2013

I wont waste my time to write with you.

Btw, this doesn't seem to have anything to do with the discussion.

You will know "how" they banned me, its exactly those replays / links to the replays I gave u in my post, thats why I got banned so far, not more and not less