Maniaplanet Forum

Hi all ! I have made an editing about the history of Trackmania in esport. I have made this video to show the decline of Trackmania in esport and for that community and developpers make something to have the comeback of trackmania in every big tournaments. Like and share for save Trackmania in esport GOGO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am2H-wKNl6Q

ahhhhh, the good old days...almost brings a tear to my eye...... i seriously hope MP/TM will experience this glory again....

great video, thanks for sharing.

I also can say good old times and i can only say, that this game is my racing game nb 1!!
No other racegames is better than THIS!!!
And this video is very great and i hope it brings attention to all, that you created this video!!

Nice Video, thx for sharing

Oh yes, memories. Screaming at the screen after winning a hard race? I've NEVER done that ..... truly .
Thank you for a really nice video - well made and set with a good, friendly tone --- well done!

Now, I'm off to island.

The message in the video is well received even though the edit is quite amateur.

The following sentences are based on outside observation of Nadeo's development without knowing internal resources or issues in the company and is only intended as informative feedback.

I don't know what it takes to wake up Nadeo and make them realize how much potential that awaits for a racing game in E-sport. There is so much more to utilize, and I think the little we have seen of TM in competitions so far is just a small percentage of the popularity it could have received with the right marketing strategy and development support.

Maniaplanet surely has absorbed a lot of their time and effort as of late, but missing out on the big E-sport wave the last couple of years might turn out to be a big bummer. Nadeo should have hired a team focusing on the E-sport part of the game and/or made a committee consisting of selected E-sport figures in the community that has hands-on experience with the game every day, that could help work out improvements or missing features for a successful E-sport title.

I just discovered an article written a while ago, stating that Hylis seems to have given up hope in racing as an E-sport.
http://www.pcgamesn.com/nadeo-racing-ga ... u-practice

Ever since the big fight between frostBeule and Hylis here in the maniaplanet forums, I've always questioned Hylis's intentions and motivation to work on stadium as a proper E-sport title and this article really expose the case.

znik wrote:I just discovered an article written a while ago, stating that Hylis seems to have given up hope in racing as an E-sport.
http://www.pcgamesn.com/nadeo-racing-ga ... u-practice

I've always questioned Hylis's intentions and motivation to work on stadium as a proper E-sport title and this article really expose the case.

I recommend you to read or watch his much more recent interviews at the occasions of the TrackMania 10 years party (where both Hylis and Mr. Guillemot highlighted the venune of TrackMania Nations to E-Sports), the Gamer's Assembly and also the Paris Games Week...
Hylis said that next year will be a big year for TrackMania.

Although the article you have linked is now rather outdated and very small, it is surprising how much interpretation can happen here...
He said that racing game is a lonely sport because of the kind of game top practise, especially if you're not in a team. There is no word about it that it is bad for E-Sports, in contrary:

Hylis wrote:"The issue is that it’s a good esport to watch, but it’s not necessarily a good esport to practice,"

Read again: he said practice!

The drivers in a team certainly have lot of fun, look at the Smurfens for example, very happy people, and I know personally they practice a lot (right, Haagse? )

A better conclusion IMHO would be that racing games are more difficult for E-Sport if you are alone, because in a team you can have more support and better resources.
And this is simply more easy with a FPS since it attracts much more players, and they really have to play together and not next to each other like on a racing game (ok, except Obstacle title perhaps).
But people like FB or CarlJr showed they still can do it.

And the bold highlighted parts do also not at all sound like "giving up":

Hylis wrote:Still, Castelnerac conceded, racing is still a major spectator sport and it could break into the esports scene. "[For] a spectator, racing is key. It's key to the Olympics, and you can have all kinds, like skiing, cycling or Formula 1," he said. "We need a big userbase who practice the sport regularly, like League of Legends. But, maybe one day, TrackMaia will be a really popular esport."

If Hylis really had given up racing games, then Nadeo would not maintaining it anymore.
But then why should they have released 2 titles last year, one of them a slightly improved Stadium?

It does not only depend on Nadeo, it also depend a lot on the players.
Now go practice

TMarc wrote:I recommend you to read or watch his much more recent interviews at the occasions of the TrackMania 10 years party (where both Hylis and Mr. Guillemot highlighted the venune of TrackMania Nations to E-Sports), the Gamer's Assembly and also the Paris Games Week...
Hylis said that next year will be a big year for TrackMania.

Although the article you have linked is now rather outdated and very small, it is surprising how much interpretation can happen here...
He said that racing game is a lonely sport because of the kind of game top practise, especially if you're not in a team. There is no word about it that it is bad for E-Sports, in contrary:

Hylis wrote:"The issue is that it’s a good esport to watch, but it’s not necessarily a good esport to practice,"

Read again: he said practice!

I might have skimmed through the article a bit too fast. Interpretations or not, it doesn't change the image Hylis have created of nadeo's support for stadium over the past years. Hard proof is the only thing that will convince me that they actually take E-sport for stadium serious nowadays. I would love to get some links for those interviews though. Are they available in English?

TMarc wrote: A better conclusion IMHO would be that racing games are more difficult for E-Sport if you are alone, because in a team you can have more support and better resources.
And this is simply more easy with a FPS since it attracts much more players, and they really have to play together and not next to each other like on a racing game (ok, except Obstacle title perhaps).
But people like FB or CarlJr showed they still can do it.

And the bold highlighted parts do also not at all sound like "giving up":

Hylis wrote:Still, Castelnerac conceded, racing is still a major spectator sport and it could break into the esports scene. "[For] a spectator, racing is key. It's key to the Olympics, and you can have all kinds, like skiing, cycling or Formula 1," he said. "We need a big userbase who practice the sport regularly, like League of Legends. But, maybe one day, TrackMaia will be a really popular esport."

If Hylis really had given up racing games, then Nadeo would not maintaining it anymore.
But then why should they have released 2 titles last year, one of them a slightly improved Stadium?

Stadium was not supposed to be in maniaplanet as I recall? But probably because they saw how popular it was compared to their other titles, they imported it and gave it another shot. Their current maintenance for stadium in maniaplanet is great, but once again, I think many stadium players share the same image of nadeo with the fact that they made many mistakes when it comes to stadium and E-sport, and their effort to regenerate stadium in maniaplanet has not yet healed our scars.

What I mainly was talking about was the past and how Nadeo could have done a much better job of getting huge within E-sport. Their move in maniaplanet definitely have potential, but until otherwise proved, I don't see much improvement to it unless NADEO takes bigger actions.

TMarc wrote: It does not only depend on Nadeo, it also depend a lot on the players.

This is the part where I feel Nadeo simply expect too much from the community. Nadeo needs to be the initiators. THEY need to market the game properly. They need to make a system within trackmania that backs up a proper competitive play. They need to be intuitive and come up with improvements and features that will give the game a better approach to an E-sport audience. Together with the community, we could build such an amazing E-sport title. Nadeo, are you willing to accept the challenge? There is a free spot for you in the international E-sport scene, no other racing title currently has the spot. The slot is open and free, will you seize the opportunity?

Interviews are partially available in English, and some French only interviews were translated somewhere in the forum also by myself.
Just search for Hylis + Interview and you'll certainly find them.

Stadium was also brought to ManiaPlanet² as hope to get all TMN(F) players over...
but they don't move e.g. as TM² Stadium is not really free (time limited demo, etc.), they would lose their ladder position (restart at 0 with ManiaPlanet) and for other unknown reasons.

But the main problem for Nadeo, to support the community like you're asking for, is simply a matter of resources.
They just can't support the whole world. There are requests to provide servers in North America, South America, North Africa, Southern countries of Africa, Asia... For ShootMania much more than for TrackMania btw., because of the more critical network ping issues.

If Nadeo had never released the dedicated server, it would be different, and then they simply would need to provide servers in several countries to have players.
So Instead, they give the tools and the rules for ladder servers.
The dedicated server is there to enable players to create servers in their own countries.
But like for events, the players have to organize themselves.

Where Nadeo can certainly improve more, is the communication towards the community,
and also the stability of the products before they get actually released.
But even then they can't forsee all issues e.g. with unadapted server controllers.
At the end, server hosters are frustraded, players disappointed, and Nadeo can't do anything else than to help to pinpoint the issues, fix the bugs, and promise it will get better in future...

But isn't it also exactly the choice and the multitude of community-driven servers which is a part of the problem?
Diversity is great, but if everyone starts creating a server because it "has to be something new and unique", and only a few players are on it, the players feel lost. And it is certainly not the cause of the browser vs. legacy browser thing.
Players can be very
The good servers are mostly constantly overloaded, and the "crappy" ones (no good choice of plugins, no good maps, in worst case no dedimania support, or with restrictions for many players) remain empty.

So if the community (here I'm including both Nadeo and the users!) is partially failing already at the basics, how should a good e-sportive community raise up?

TMarc wrote:But isn't it also exactly the choice and the multitude of community-driven servers which is a part of the problem?
Diversity is great, but if everyone starts creating a server because it "has to be something new and unique", and only a few players are on it, the players feel lost. And it is certainly not the cause of the browser vs. legacy browser thing.
Players can be very
The good servers are mostly constantly overloaded, and the "crappy" ones (no good choice of plugins, no good maps, in worst case no dedimania support, or with restrictions for many players) remain empty.

this paragraph is one of the things i dislike about online play. theres always way too much crap on my screen whenever i go to a server because all the plugins. its almost hard to see the track at times. the only other places i see that many buttons asking for money are porn sites.

couldn't care less about the legacy vs current browser thing.

TMarc wrote:But the main problem for Nadeo, to support the community like you're asking for, is simply a matter of resources.
They just can't support the whole world. There are requests to provide servers in North America, South America, North Africa, Southern countries of Africa, Asia... For ShootMania much more than for TrackMania btw., because of the more critical network ping issues.

If Nadeo had never released the dedicated server, it would be different, and then they simply would need to provide servers in several countries to have players.
So Instead, they give the tools and the rules for ladder servers.
The dedicated server is there to enable players to create servers in their own countries.
But like for events, the players have to organize themselves.

Personally, I doubt this is any part of the issue. The serverhosters are there, the servers are running, they're just lacking the players.

TMarc wrote:Where Nadeo can certainly improve more, is the communication towards the community,
and also the stability of the products before they get actually released.
But even then they can't forsee all issues e.g. with unadapted server controllers.
At the end, server hosters are frustraded, players disappointed, and Nadeo can't do anything else than to help to pinpoint the issues, fix the bugs, and promise it will get better in future...

Again, servercontrollers don't adapt that quickly, mostly because once they've implemented these changes, new changes come along and ruin the day (this decides the faith of quite some controllers, as developers get fed up with all the changes, of which there are enough that don't work properly).
In order to get/keep the community on board, Nadeo should start thinking about the "coming soons", "it's done when it's done" and the "can't tell you yet". Frustration gets quite high because of these statements.
The community is (or should be) their friends, most of us here have been active in this game/community for years (myself, 8 years this October).

TMarc wrote:But isn't it also exactly the choice and the multitude of community-driven servers which is a part of the problem?
Diversity is great, but if everyone starts creating a server because it "has to be something new and unique", and only a few players are on it, the players feel lost. And it is certainly not the cause of the browser vs. legacy browser thing.
Players can be very
The good servers are mostly constantly overloaded, and the "crappy" ones (no good choice of plugins, no good maps, in worst case no dedimania support, or with restrictions for many players) remain empty.

So if the community (here I'm including both Nadeo and the users!) is partially failing already at the basics, how should a good e-sportive community raise up?

Again, I think the community is not to blame here. Certainly the servers are not the big problem here... This is mainly about the eSports... The tournamentorganizers are there, tournaments are being organized, but not at the same level as before (in which you had an ESL Major Series for TM, ESL Pro Series in various countries, primestage on the ESWC).
Since TrackMania Nations was on the mainstages of major tournaments, many new FPS/RPGs have come along and taken the places, because either the publisher did not support the game anymore, or the tournamentorganizers didn't feel that it was worth the trouble/money anymore to organize it for TrackMania.

I personally still feel that the big lacking thing here is marketing. I've come here, because I knew Nations as free game in my "younger youth" (^^). If I hadn't, I probably wouldn't have been here, because of the little knowledge TrackMania 2 has created.

Because of ManiaPlanet, the attention is split between TrackMania and ShootMania, and I think that neither of them are getting better because of it. There should be an active team inside Nadeo (or for that matter, NadeoLive), busy with eSports. I can tell you that as ESL staff, we are welcoming any initiative to organize something more. But after talking personally to some Nadeo staff in Paris last year and talks with the Community Managers, I haven't got the impression that Nadeo (or Ubisoft) is willing to do something along the lines of a return to the ESL Major Series.
Granted, it won't be enough, but it will be a first step, as it'll attract attention from players of other games, noticing TrackMania and possible trying it.

On a side-note: ManiaPlanet has been announced as ever-evolving platform. Until now it seems that only the community has to make sure that evolving happens. If you release updates 10 months apart, and therefore have to wait for your bugs to get fixed for that long, people get irritated over that. Luckily the universal demo is coming in July (if I read correctly), maybe that will bring up some extra players.

On another side-note: The "2015 is the year for TrackMania" is again such a sentence with which the community can do nothing. We are now here in 2014 and we can see the game going down with small steps before our eyes. I'd say: "What do we want? Solutions! When do we want them? NOW!", but I know that it won't work like that. I can wait for 2015, but it would be great to hear some of the plans, in order for the community to keep faith in the game and a possible "uprising" in the future.