Maniaplanet Forum

I think there has been some talk about ladders and points. I'd like to bring up something that I've been thinking for a long time, but which didn't seem possible. With the new TM it surely would be possible if it was in place at the start.

Essentially, I think the current TM ladder, where it is capped at 100K and you lose points to ensure this occurs, is broken. The idea is OK and the implementation is good, but it is broken because the players game it. What we see is a mad rush on Monday to make up the lost points, and then as a player gets back to 90K one of two things happens:

1/ He stops playing 90K servers since he has his points. Other players are disadvantaged because they can't play him and gain points.

2/ More likely, he now deliberately loses matches so other players can gain points. I see this on many servers, where an obviously very good player will drop out of some rounds to ensure he doesn't win. On some clan servers, even during ROC, I've seen players with 40 or so rank run at the back of the field so other clan members get better ranks.

This, 2/, really annoys me because I play to have a race. If someone is better than me I don't mind losing to them, but I really hate them gifting me a win. I want to win because I am good, not because some git is being patronising.

Also, many times in servers, I see players whine that so-and-so has his 90K so he should push off and stop winning so this whining player can get more points (the whining player failing to spot that beating the 90K player will earn him lots of points, but there we go).

What I would like to suggest is two mechanisms:

1/ Players lose points if they don't play. Not necessarily like happens not to enforce the cap limit, but more like you gain coppers every day you play. It's to encourage playing, and they need encouraging because:

2/ Players can lose points as well as win. Just like a low-ranked driver coming highly placed will win points, a high-ranked player coming lower than expected (due to his rank) should lose points. Encourage him to try to win, and if he can't then plainly his rank is too high for him.

I believe these two measures would make the ladder fairer and lead to less gaming of it.

I've never understood ladder system and the idea behind it. What do I gain if I'm on top 100? I see some are very fond of raising their ego by climbing higher on ladder rankings, but still, I have no idea why is that.

You are kidding, surely!

Why do you race? You race to beat your opponent. At the end of the race the scoreboard says that you are better than him. Sometimes you are not, though. Maybe you win 4 and he wins 6 - is he better than you? It can be tricky to tell.

The ladder is merely a longer competition that shows who is better than who over many races. Yes, it is about ego, but just playing TM (in fact any game at all) is about ego too.

And there is nothing wrong with that. We, as a race, thrive on competition. If you sneer at players wanting to be higher up the ladder that show that usually shows that you are afraid that you won't match up. The equivalent of tipping the chessboard on the floor when you start to lose.

I see point in short term competing but no long term. It just causes stress "oof, I can't sleep, somebody's gonna get past me". I get good feeling when I win a round, but I really don't care what happens after that. It may be just my opinion, but I play to have fun, not to get egoboost.

Either way, I see your suggestion as a balancing modification. You will be afraid you lose your points if you race, but if you don't race, you will lose your points anyway. That's clever

You will be afraid you lose your points if you race, but if you don't race, you will lose your points anyway

That's one way of looking at it, yes

I think this could be a good idea, I really do.

Thank you

PurplePants wrote:You are kidding, surely!

The ladder is merely a longer competition that shows who is better than who over many races. Yes, it is about ego, but just playing TM (in fact any game at all) is about ego too.

It dosnt show who is the best player...
The ladder dosnt show anything else than how much a player have played on a ladderbooster server, and nothing else. Just think about tmn... I never got a high rank, but i did beat many that had an extreme rank. Then again could i loose to people that had an even lower rank than me. Thats because the ladder is only a selfmade rank

But hey, many people enjoy hunting the ladder, and thats their main goal. Nothing wrong with that. But the ladder dosnt prove anything

I should point out that another problem with the current ladder is that you can move up simply by playing a lot. The more you play, the more points you get. With my improved scheme that would no long occur, since if you played a lot but always wound up at the back of the field you will lose points instead. The ladder would thus be a better reflection of skill.

how much a player have played on a ladderbooster server

Ummm... I hate to ask, but I have to... did you actually read my post? This is one of the broken aspects of the current ladder that my scheme would fix.

Actually, I sense lots more people coming on, typically lower ranked players , saying how the ladder is meaningless and only for ego trippers, etc. Please, if you don' t like it or think it beneath you, just ignore it entirely and leave it to those that do play it. You gain nothing by denigrating those taking part, except that you imagine your own ego is boosted since you are not such a kid and plainly have better taste. Let's just be grown up about this, OK, and decide to 'live and let live'.