Review after 11 years Trackmania

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gimpymoo
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by gimpymoo » 14 Sep 2018, 17:24

Games have moved on from being their own "ecosystem".

It is mainly considered "the norm" that games run within another eco system. Steam, uPlay, PSN, XBL.

This encourages familiarity and that gives players confidence in a game as the process to installing a mod is not alien to them. That is just the industry is.

Trackmania has become a mess of user scripts and plugins and mods which make zero sense to the average "player" and right now, the game needs players.

To move the game forward, it needs a console release with cross platform support.

Keeping a game "standalone" in this day and age is just not doable if you want a game to grow, it will just shrivel up and die.

TM does not have the appeal of a Minecraft.

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TMarc
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by TMarc » 14 Sep 2018, 18:23

Only one word: Trackmania Turbo.
Simple game, no silly scripts, no half-ready mods, runs in consoles.
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wazerti
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by wazerti » 14 Sep 2018, 22:52

For me, Nadeo did a critical mistake by separating all environments...

Creating mini-communities arround an only environment has just broken the TM2 community... And now, online nobody on Lagoon and Valley, just a little online community on Canyon... What was the interest ? A community cannot arise from nowhere and surely not arround just 1 enviro, the game isn't complete...

Why could we not play all these envis in one game like on TMUF ?
The majority of players moved on Stadium because it was the most popular and threw away the others.
TM Turbo had an advantage, it allowed to players the ability to play all of the 4 envis in one game.

The best solution were to merge all enviros together but they can't, because if a player only purchased 1 enviro he will get the 4 for free and be advantaged against the one who purchased every enviros before :/

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Demented
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by Demented » 15 Sep 2018, 15:02

Many, many good points and good ideas posted here recently and I've got to say I agree with pretty much all of them.
I have purchased all environments and it wouldn't bother me at all if people who currently only have one got the rest for free (mostly because I want to see the game get a big boost) but I can see why it would frustrate some people. Maybe if a person owned at least two, they could get the fully merged version for free or if they own one they pay another 10 0r 20 to get the full version. I think $30 for a 4 environment game with such extensive editors is a really good deal. The tools TM offers to make your own Maps, Titles, Items, Skins etc. make this still a really cool creative game.
Iron out the few issues that scare people away & simplify things and I think it could easily take a big leap forward.
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by gimpymoo » 16 Sep 2018, 09:38

A single eco system is needed to make it financially viable, like it or not and to foster cross platform multiplayer which is what is needed to make player numbers anywhere near what they once were.

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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by TMarc » 16 Sep 2018, 11:42

The TM² community was already "split" before. You cannot say that TM² has done it.
Because already with Trackmania, players preferred this or that environments,
and there also have been dedicated servers for only one title, like coast F1.
Only because they were all playing inside the same game does not mean that it was a integer community.

Maniaplanet has improved the possibility of players to chose what they want and what they do not want.
Now they can only purchase Canyon if they only like that, and are not forced to purchase the other titles.
That this introduces some limitations is normal.
And that Lagoon is not successful has many reasons. It is the newest and also probably the most difficult, and it was released first with Turbo.
So it was not that much of a surprise anymore for Tracmania².
Perhaps the people are tired of Trackmania in general, since there is not that much new stuff anymore, and that creating own stuff is not that easy as it looks.

With the "TM² Multititle" title Nadeo already has added the possibility to intermix the available environments.
Of course players need to have all environments, so what?
If they don't have all titles, but a server uses them all, is it now the problem of the server admin or of the few players?
But it is certainly not the problem for the "community".

Apparently many people only prefer Nations, but this is only because it was free.
That was a nice move of Nadeo, for e-Sports. But it was only intended for that, and to perhaps get people to purchse other parts.
But this has not split the community, it has created an own one, which grew up with a very wrong mindset, namely of playing free games only.
To extend it to "I want it all for free" is perhaps a human touch, but it is neither fair nor realistic.
Sure, some people are very kind and create amazing things for free, but professional game developper studios cannot do that,
especially Nadeo since they don't have foreign advertisements in their games.
This means they absolutely need to sell their products.

The only thing that Nadeo cannot do is to do anything for everyone at once.
They have an internal strategy, based on their own decisions, and based on the team capacity.
That this doesn't make everyone happy is also clear.

Perhaps Maniaplanet is now only like a hobby for Nadeo, while they are working on things for Ubisoft we don't know of.
Hylis told once that they are more game tool creators.
And they have successively opened those for the creative minds.
Even if some things need to be improved, this takes time.
So, either find a workaround, or leave it.
There is always a choice. :)
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null8fuenf10
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by null8fuenf10 » 16 Sep 2018, 13:47

Demented wrote:
14 Sep 2018, 15:50
...
2) - While I personally don't think any TM environments really need to be free (aside from demos) I do think it might be time to merge the four current TM² environments into one big "Trackmania World" game and have any new environments as addons. I find $10 for Stadium and $20 for other environment quite reasonable but a majority of regular player have already purchased them all and $25 or $30 for a Fully Merged game would bring in more people and simplify things a lot. I also think, allowing additional environments to be free addons would keep people interested that aren't already hardcore TM fans.

The separations within MP are too numerous at the moment. Fragmentation = Confusion, Confusion = Players Leaving. It might be time for a merge.
I Love Trackmania, and want to see it not just survive, but to THRIVE! :pil
I, also think the Enviroments should not be free! Trackmania is worth the money!
But they should sell Trackmania 2, as one Game. In Steam they should give Maniaplanet as, what it is right now, as FreeToPlay! And then as Maniaplanet or Trackmania2 and not splitted in TM2 Valley, TM2 Canyon, etc...!
They should sell the Enviroments like a DLC. Make Bundles, give one Enviroment for free, when someone owns 3, and so on. And make the Price for each Envi to 10,-€ or maximum 15,-€.
Then give the FreeToPlay Players, 60min., full Access to the Game, with all Editors, Servers and other Stuff,
but don't let them save, their Medals, Creations, BestTimes. Each time they LogIn, their Rank should be resetet. I think this would be the best choice, for motivating to buy the Game!

wraith wrote:
14 Sep 2018, 17:04
...
Demo mode screen should be different from the full paid screen "main menu" maybe on demo screen should be showing off stuff what they are missing out on from the full game like a tease for them to buy it, could have links to sites where to buy from.
This is also, a good idea. And in the Channels, should be more advertisement, to buy the Full Game!
wraith wrote:
14 Sep 2018, 17:04
...
Can TM return back to what we loved, not sure to be honest but i would love to say YES, one thing for sure i am still here and will be till the end.
Been here nearly the start, made a great big family new / old more each month, and all them years of gaming only tm does this.
yes returning back to TM2 be nice.
One thing for sure keep posting the comments will keep this alive.
...
I'm with you! :thumbsup:
Demented wrote:
15 Sep 2018, 15:02
...
I have purchased all environments and it wouldn't bother me at all if people who currently only have one got the rest for free (mostly because I want to see the game get a big boost) but I can see why it would frustrate some people.
...
It wouldn't bother me, too! And i think, the most of the other paid users, too.
The main interest of the community, is that the community will grow again!

Greetings
null8fuenf10 :pil

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null8fuenf10
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by null8fuenf10 » 16 Sep 2018, 14:08

TMarc wrote:
14 Sep 2018, 18:23
Only one word: Trackmania Turbo.
Simple game, no silly scripts, no half-ready mods, runs in consoles.
But it's not Cross-Platform! When TMT, where Cross-Platform, then it would be much much more popular...


TMarc wrote:
16 Sep 2018, 11:42
...
Maniaplanet has improved the possibility of players to chose what they want and what they do not want.
Now they can only purchase Canyon if they only like that, and are not forced to purchase the other titles.
That this introduces some limitations is normal.
And that Lagoon is not successful has many reasons. It is the newest and also probably the most difficult, and it was released first with Turbo.
So it was not that much of a surprise anymore for Tracmania².
Perhaps the people are tired of Trackmania in general, since there is not that much new stuff anymore, and that creating own stuff is not that easy as it looks.
...
Hmmm, i personally think, that Maniaplanet is now on a better way, then a few months ago and i don't think people are tired.
I see many new players, the last weeks and also some, who told me, that they are want to buy the Game soon.
Also, peoples are creating Campaigns, Mods, Skins and so on!
The Channelssystem improved the Game, and more people enjoying TM2 again. It's not perfect, right now, but its an improvement!
What we need is more Advertisement in the Channels and the F2P Users, should see what they are missing, when buying an Enviroment. The Titlepacks, the Editors, the Skins from Maniapark! Maybe make an InGame Video, showing all these stuff.
Also there should be an integration InGame, with maniapark.com and maniacalendar.com.
One Big Problem is, that the Game feels, like it is in Early Access. It don't feel like a finished Game and still it's not finished!
Maybe they should mark it, as "under steady development"! :D
For Lagoon, i would give it as a Bonus for Free to anyone, who owns the other 3 Enviroments. Cause, they don't profit from Lagoon, so why not give it for Free?
And all others, who already bought it,...hmmm, give them 10.000 Planets or so.

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Demented
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by Demented » 16 Sep 2018, 16:08

I find Lagoon to be the most beautiful environment yet (aesthetically) & I think the only thing keeping people away from it is that it's very hard to learn to drive. Literally every single person I've shown TM to can't stand Lagoon and refused to drive it after just a minute or two. Now, I've learned to control the Lagoon car but only after putting a lot of time into it because I love the look of it and I like the physics of the vehicle, just not the control/handling of it. (and I remember Bay being fun after getting use to to car handling).
The point I'm getting to is, an all inclusive version of Trackmania² can let players create and play tracks in Lagoon (or other envs) using vehicles from other environments that fit their preferred driving style better. I recently contributed to a new TitlePack that was only mixed environments and it turned out quite fun.

We in this topic don't know all the plans or visions Nadeo has in mind for the future and can't see all the variables that weigh in on their ultimate decisions, but I think ideas and observations from player in here do help paint a broader picture for them to consider for the future of TM.
I like that so many people in here have constructive ideas to offer and not just anger posts. :D .
:pil
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Hylis
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by Hylis » 16 Sep 2018, 16:44

I am reading. Things are much more complicated than each component and it takes time, but it's always precious to read. Thanks.

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