The Situation in ShootMania is... bad!

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HYPE
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The Situation in ShootMania is... bad!

Post by HYPE » 29 Jan 2019, 22:14

Hey Hylis and everyone else reading this. We need to talk...

Current situation in ShootMania is bad. It is really bad and it is getting worse!

Not just that the number of players is decreasing, pretty much since I’ve known this game, but also the mood is shifting. The last updates were something like an overkill for the community.
The last two big updates mp4 and mp4.1 added more bugs than anything else. The features we got were not wanted, while the features we liked got destroyed. One bad update can happen, but this is going on and on and on.
Since November, 17 there is a thread on the forum regarding a bug that affects many players so some of their settings reset after every map change, which makes the game close to impossible to play for them. No fix for this to this day. And this is by far not the only thing. There are many more bugs, many of them not even reported on the forum.

Then today I saw another update was published. I hoped so much it would have done something. But, no. Only stuff for TrackMania. It's nice and all that the tm guys get their updates, still no one can say that ShootMania wouldn't need them much more right now. So, I was already kind of mad when I saw that. Until I looked on the SM discord later and the first thing I saw was a new bug in SM. Players have problems joining the game. When they join to play, they always get forced into spectator. And apparently there are many more new bugs...

I'm sorry, but are you kidding me? Not just there are no fixes coming for SM, but instead even more bugs!? This is just not right and this has to be said.

Logically there was (and still is at the point I write this) a discussion going on the SM discord. And a lot of good points came up there. I want to share them here, because they catch the true opinions of the SM community very well.
"seriously though, what's up with recent updates adding nothing but bugs to SM?"

"bugs are generally understandable if they come with new features, but that's not really what's happening here..."

"isn't the purpose of an update to add bugs? since the last 3 updates it's been like that"

"I want to do projects in this game, but stuff like this just makes me afraid that one day, nadeo will release another update that completely screws with obstacle, or the map editor, or servers, or something that just ruins anything I'm trying to do"

"from an outsider perspective it probably looks they're trying to drive the players away"

"it's fine if they want to focus on other projects more, but it'd be nice if they just let us play the game"

"go to the forum and make 100 threads, each for its own bug, that’s the best we can do, well, quit is an option as well"

"imo best thing that could happen is that nadeo sell the game to another company who would be much more interested in listening and working"

"I think part of the issue is that nadeo relies on the community to both keep the game alive AND keep it playable in general
I get that they've built a platform that's very community-centered in general, but I feel like they're taking the community work for granted"

"I bought a game, not a tool. I'm a player, not a modder."

"I think they really need to bring some structure into the game in general, just pumping out new tools and blocks and weapons will just make the game even more confusing for new players"

"there isn't a single official nadeo server, nor any nadeo map or any sign of support for sm"

"i do think they signed sm as a failure in their minds but they cannot publicly admit it"

"I think that SM is just a big social experiment at this point tbh. 'Let's add cars and see how our subjects react'"

"we are not harsh. that’s the reality. For me as a player it feels like that Nadeo doesn’t care... was there any good update the last years? No"

"when they didn't release an update for a year. that was the best year"

"i swear every time there is an update it just f*cks everything up and it’s up to the players to adapt to it"

"You're right that criticizing nadeo's intentions might be unfair, but to be honest, the lack of communication and updates we've had for years doesn't make it seem like they care much, or are passionate about this game anymore"

"yeah the criticism might sometimes be mean or unconstructive, but your job as a developer is try to translate that into feedback that you can use to make your products better"

"maybe they're working on something epic behind the scenes, but all we see as customers and players right now is updates that don't really add much more than bugs, so I'd say the frustration is justified"

"if they don’t hurry the player base will shrink more and more"

"I was really pissed when i read about "official TM² Champions League" from UBI... And so now it’s official: Shootmania is the unloved, dirty, disgusting child, that they hide in a dark dungeon in the very last corner in the basement... Not even worth the glimpse of a blind eye..."
As you can see a very big amount of the players (if not all) are very very unhappy about the communication between nadeo and us. I thought I could make something happen to build a bridge between these two sides, but I failed and with the latest events I also gave up on it.

There are a few more things I have to say: I feel like nadeo thinks they know what’s good for the game and what’s not. But I wonder, how do they know, if literally no one of nadeos employees is actually playing the game? We are the ones that play the game. We are the ones that invested thousands of hours in it. We know what’s the best for the game. But there is no sign what so ever that nadeo is listening to us and this is going on for years.

That’s why the situation is bad. That’s why the remaining sm players are frustrated, unhappy and very angry.

My advice option 1: Get a community manager. Someone that is listening to the community to share their wishes, critique and opinions with nadeo and that talks to the community on the other side, so we can finally feel like nadeo is listening to us. This is what the game needs the most right now imho. (And just to make that clear: I'm not talking about myself. I'm not open to take this position anymore)

Option 2: Fix the most important bugs and then make no more updates to ShootMania and just let us play the game until even the last loyal remaining soul has left. (This is more like a joke, but still better than what is going on right now. If you are serious about SM, you will not take this option seriously. If you are not serious, do this at least.)

I've been way too positive about this whole situation for way too long, but it can't go on like this. And when even I, known as a very positive person, has started to revolt, you might start to ask yourself as well, if there is not a tiny thing going wrong here.
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chco
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Re: The Situation in ShootMania is... bad!

Post by chco » 29 Jan 2019, 22:39

:thumbsup:

Can't play tonight because of this new bug featured update. And Shootmania is part of my bedtime ritual.... grrrr

@alinoa feel free to contact me if you want to have a chat with what changes need to be made, as it seems you are one of the few that actually listen to folks.

I this case I fully agree with Hype's post! (and it doesn't happen often I agree with a Smurf :p) !
Last edited by chco on 29 Jan 2019, 22:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Situation in ShootMania is... bad!

Post by keeth » 29 Jan 2019, 22:39

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Ҡenny here! find me on: YouTube
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Re: The Situation in ShootMania is... bad!

Post by wawawawu » 29 Jan 2019, 22:48

I agree in every word, hype said!

I am a known hardcore-fan. Noone, really no one can tell that i am a negative person. Still after all that negative experiences with so many things, I am ingame for hours ev'ry day, praying for improvement in ev'ry direction.

And all of us hardcore-fans, that put lots of money for servers and really thousands of hours since years in making maps, plugins, titlepacks, items, moods, mods and try to uphold the moral and bring new people in this game. We all are felt left alone and not taken seriously as often as we try to help making this game better.

It feels that noone has half an ear left to take it serious. WE are the gamers. WE bought this game. WE are the community that is keeping it alive!
WE are CUSTOMERS.

"CUSTOMERS!"

Maybe you never heard this word! But as a customer, I want to be SATISFIED! Not get sentences like: "oh, we will do better, and we will do marketing and affiliate when its time to..." THE TIME IS LONG GONE!

You made a great game, you had a great community and killed it. This is the truth. And as long as you say: Oh no, just only the negative people...

WE ARE NOT NEGATIVE! WE ARE DISAPPOINTED!

I am 53 years old, now running my own company for nearly 30 years! And if i did like you are doing in Shootmania... i would have gone bankrupt 28 years ago!
---------------------------------------
AND TO TOP ALL OF THIS:
Ubisoft and Nadeo launching a "TM² Champions League"
Thanks alot, now its official, that we are the ugly kid you are ashamed of, trying to hide us from the world.
There is no official word from UBI, from NADEO to our beloved game since YEARS! No advertising, N.O.T.H.I.N.G! Its like this game doesn't exist...

I am officially pissed! And ofc you can say: hey - if you don't like the way we do... leave the game... BUT MAYBE YOU FORGOT... WE ALL PAYED. REAL MONEY. OUR MONEY. AND TO US IT SEEMS YOU GIVE A SHIT ON OUR PRESENCE.

Yes, you can say: if you don't like - leave.... This is what thousands of real nice gamers did. And this is the best community i ever had been the pleasure to be a part of it. Not because of the game - but nonetheless of the game!
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Re: The Situation in ShootMania is... bad!

Post by BigBang1112 » 29 Jan 2019, 23:13

I'm definitely feelin with ya Shootmania people.
I loved this game so much in the past, but now it's pretty much like a child that didn't get enough care.
It's seriously sad seeing such a great concept getting more and more broken because Nadeo can't hold the game properly.

I don't play Shootmania anymore because the casual side completely died and the game just got so much split into billion title packs creating super unsatisfying play flow. And I could just go on with more points, but I don't even want to.
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Re: The Situation in ShootMania is... bad!

Post by HYPE » 29 Jan 2019, 23:17

Just a small impression of what the game looks like after todays update that was only for tm. (video made by hero)
https://gyazo.com/ee9169e1e84160aca3d4645eebd5c51d
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Re: The Situation in ShootMania is... bad!

Post by djhubertus » 29 Jan 2019, 23:33

From business standpoint, they should gave up with shootmania storm and put all core elements of the game to the drawing table and rework their vision for fps and make a sequel. Putting effort into storm is draining their resources and money. They tried to satisfy everyone during beta stage, but it's impossible, that's why competitive players left, numbers dropped and then casual players left because their put way too much focus on modding tools, rather than actual game.

Turning shootmania into lidl roblox was a poor decision to bring small community to the current state where people prefer to talk about a game instead of playing it. Trackmania has advantage because it's actual game that follows roots of the franchise, even in days of microtransactions, battle passes, matchmaking etc.

I think SM won't fit to archaic TM model and needs all these new features to first, bring new blood to the IP, and then rethink about their esport plan for upcoming years, not even talking about messy game design.
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Re: The Situation in ShootMania is... bad!

Post by cime62 » 29 Jan 2019, 23:35

And we tried... Yeahh we tried to communicate with you, Nadeo... But still, the same result : nothing...

We spoke... We spoke like A LOT. But it's like we just spoke, and it was just useless pointless speech, as if you are all just doing random ideas that pop up to your mind and NEVER DO what WE propose... We won't even have an answer here, we WON'T EVEN have an answer from the manager of Nadeo whereas WE are the ONLY community left, we are the last ones, and you do not even care about us.

This is amazing. Amazing how much Nadeo failed. Quake listens to its community A LOT whereas it is wider, same for Unreal Tournament and I say that because I am actually part of these communities. Yea, definitly Nadeo failed.

Listen to HYPE. He is speaking in the name of the hole community. We have to create a concrete dialogue, with RESULTS coming from it and NOT new bugs and features we do not care about! LISTEN TO US NADEO

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Re: The Situation in ShootMania is... bad!

Post by Miss » 30 Jan 2019, 00:02

djhubertus wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 23:33
From business standpoint, they should gave up with shootmania storm and put all core elements of the game to the drawing table and rework their vision for fps and make a sequel. Putting effort into storm is draining their resources and money. They tried to satisfy everyone during beta stage, but it's impossible, that's why competitive players left, numbers dropped and then casual players left because their put way too much focus on modding tools, rather than actual game.
This is the part I personally agree the most with. HOWEVER. The problem with dropping support for Storm is that SMStorm is part of ManiaPlanet, which is the entire engine for the game, so they are forced to maintain all 5 games (4 TM & 1 SM) simultaneously. (Not to mention the TMU car physics either, but that's technically also more games within ManiaPlanet!) This is a tough task. So, dropping support for 1 game isn't really doable.

A prime example of this is Nadeo dropping support for TM Canyon Platform; people were unable to play it because of the MP4 update. Of course, that's a little different since it's a free titlepack, but it's a similar situation.

I don't know how many people are working at Nadeo now, but they should start to consider setting up a QA team or do quick scheduled tests just before updates so that these bugs don't happen. (Psst Nadeo, we have a beta discord, you could schedule tests there!) -- Also, (potentially) untested updates at 11:30 PM are kind of insane.
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Re: The Situation in ShootMania is... bad!

Post by janfo » 30 Jan 2019, 00:11

I agree with most of what's been said,
but before focusing on something else (maybe sm2?) please fix it as good as you can, so we can can play and have fun
because we still have a lot of fun playing cups and stuff

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