Higher maximum values for StaminaMax, Power and Gain

[Froyd]

Why is there a cap for those values? I wanted to have a mod with higher regenerating and more powerful stamina for faster races, and possibly implement some kind of powerup or class based system using it. This is only limiting the modders' creativity.

[kalstrams]

This is making a standard value set, that must be unchangeable, like an etalon values for meter, second - SI system. You see, the guy who buys the game, connects to the random servers, and gets in the game with, for example, all those value 3 times higher than the original developers' intention. He likes the community, the people, the game. Spends a first month of game on that server.

Would you mind describing me, how he will feel in his first game of Elite, for example ?

[Froyd]

That doesn't seem like a very good argument to me. Especially since you can already modify things like AmmoGain and Power, ArmorMax and Power to have as much as ten times the standard values (and you can even modify StaminaMax, Gain and Power to have ten time LESS the standard value). It would be just as bad for our hypothetical newbie that won't know how to use his stamina and won't be able to spam rockets recklessly in Elite mode.

You see, getting around to know the game's modes is part of the process of learning it, especially in one tailored to be so highly modifiable like Shootmania. So what if a mode with stronger impulse gets more popular than the standard Joust mode? So what if a mod with a million bajillion times the stamina's regeneration ratio is deemed more suitable for the competitive scene than Elite? I thought that was EXACTLY the kind of thing Nadeo wanted to happen when developing the mod-support: If you think you can make it better, you get your hands on the code and do it the way you want, if the community likes your mode then it gets popular, if a part of the community doesn't like it, then they just don't play this mode's servers. I hate comparing this game to quake, since even though it's so unique it gets compared to quake every time, but anyway, CPMA features a different set of physics than quake 3 vanilla and the CPL held several tournaments with its physics. And limiting variables like that we may never have "our CPMA".

So, one way or another the situation you described is bound to happen, higher stamina or not. But any smart fella, just getting his hands on the game, knowing it is so modifiable (and it has been marketed to me that way) would try and learn about as many game modes as possible to see which ones he likes and which ones he doesn't like.

Again I ask, why don't we have higher maximum values for StaminaMax, Power and Gain?

[kalstrams]

Ask why CS/Q/UT are so successful, but neither of them allows leagues to impose the said modification analogues to their rule sets, despite having the opportunity and technical tools to do so ?

[Froyd]

Ask why CS/Q/UT are so successful, but neither of them allows leagues to impose the said modification analogues to their rule sets, despite having the opportunity and technical tools to do so ?

I'm sorry. I'm afraid I didn't quite understand what you said right there, please correct me if I misinterpreted you. The game developers don't have jurisdiction to allow anything in any league outside the publisher-sponsored ones: the CPL had its rules, the ESL has its rules, MLG has its rules. None of them is/was limited by the game devs in any way, they can impose whatever ruleset they deem more suitable for their tournaments. Take the CPL for example, their 2006 Quake III tournament featured the CPMA physics (and they could have chosen CPMA CPM). And I see you mentioned Counter-Strike, which was originally a mod (and a heavy modifying one at that) for Half-Life, and this mod status didn't stop a thousand leagues (including the aforementioned CPL) of hosting tournaments for it. The same goes with the original DotA, which never had the "official mod" status. It is not up to Nadeo to judge if the best game mode for either casual play, competitive play or major tournaments will be their game mode with the standard set of physics or our DotA, or our CPMA, or our Counter-Strike, or our speed mod or anything.

[kalstrams]

I meant, that none of major e-sports titles were going far away from the original, in therm of game physics. Except CPMA. The things you're suggest, I think to be 'far' too. That's what I mean, nothing else.

[Awpteamoose]

I meant, that none of major e-sports titles were going far away from the original, in therm of game physics. Except CPMA. The things you're suggest, I think to be 'far' too. That's what I mean, nothing else.

I don't know, Counter-Strike is pretty far away from Half-Life in terms of everything.

Also, +1 to this thread.

[kalstrams]

I meant, that none of major e-sports titles were going far away from the original, in therm of game physics. Except CPMA. The things you're suggest, I think to be 'far' too. That's what I mean, nothing else.

I don't know, Counter-Strike is pretty far away from Half-Life in terms of everything.

Also, +1 to this thread.

CS is that far from the original, that I consider it to be an separate game. And then we have those IEM, ESL and many more rule sets.

[Awpteamoose]

CS is that far from the original, that I consider it to be an separate game. And then we have those IEM, ESL and many more rule sets.

Why should SM stop people from creating something so far from the original as well?

[Froyd]

I meant, that none of major e-sports titles were going far away from the original, in therm of game physics. Except CPMA. The things you're suggest, I think to be 'far' too. That's what I mean, nothing else.

And just because of that you are saying that it is ok to impose limits for the creation of mods? Limit the way our mods can modify even a simple thing like the stamina bar? I can think of many many many things that may or may not be fun to play and or fine for competitive play if I could further modify those variables, especially combined with other things. Imagine a race game mode with maps designed in way that theres many ways to get to the goal, in some of them you have a launcher pad, in others you pads that make you gain a temporary Stamina boost. Or a class-based game (like HL's Team Fortress, quake's NTF, Tribes: Ascend, and many many games), where different classes have different weapons, different weapon properties, different armor AND different mobility(being the only one not doable as of now). You really think only the mods adopted for the major leagues are reasonable to be played?

Currently you can set the value from 0.1 to 1 for all of those, 1 being the standard. Unlike AmmoGain, that you can set as high as 10 (meaning you can shoot rockets non-stop without stopping even for a milisecond to reload), ArmorGain, that you can set to make a player endure 10 rocket hits. To limit one and not the other seems silly to me. And, for one, I didn't expect anyone saying "no" to more flexibility... especially in this forum, which is centered around developers.

The things I suggest, I think to be 'fun' too. That's what I mean, nothing else.

EDIT: fixed typos