Forbit Playerskins which are almost Invisible

[TStarGermany]

http://forum.maniaplanet.com/viewtopic. ... 43&start=0
We already had that discussion a long time ago.
If you dont want to display other peoples' skin, turn them off in the config launcher or let server operators turn custom skins off.

[TStarGermany]

It bores me to death. Honestly.

1. Fairness = Equality in starting opportunity, not in outcome.
Everyone has access to camouflage in the game or any other kind of skin he/she wants to use.
So using camous is infact perfectly fair.
2. Did you ever consider that camouflage is a subset of fighting/battle ?
3. From the technical point, you cannot tell apart a camouflage skin from a nations skin or a team skin.
Try to disable one and you will disable them all.
4. Every server operator can turn on/off custom skins. Every player can turn on/off custom skins.
On serious/pro servers, people will only wear team skins or no custom skins at all. And the op should enforece it,
if necessary.
You don't like custom skins? Fine, TURN THEM OFF.

say me one reason why it should be not forbit

YOU need a PROPER reason to propose a ban on these things in the first place and if you come up with at least ONE, then we can talk.

[R3al1ty]

Hey... I'm sorry, but I still think that some skins are hurting the game, and I will try to explain with some decent arguments, why I think so.
Let's focus on the Ghost-Camouflage skin. The other camouflage skins are not actually a problem imo.
The Ghost skins has two problems, just to start off with some arguments AGAINST certain skins, like you demanded:
1. Because of the lighting, the skins looks bigger than the hit detection actually is. That is problematic in aiming and hitting the players.
2. With some backgrounds the skin can really be close to invisible, which takes away fairness and equality ingame. yes, fairness, read on to find out why I think so:

1. Fairness = Equality in starting opportunity, not in outcome.
Everyone has access to camouflage in the game or any other kind of skin he/she wants to use.
So using camous is infact perfectly fair.

I don't think "Everyone can use it" should be a real point in Game Balance and Game Design. Just because everyone can use an instakill weapon in CS, doesn't mean it's a good idea to implement it. May not be a perfect comparison, but maybe you understand what I'm talking about... I would not want every player running around in the ghost skin all of a sudden, because it would honestly be a game changer.
More and more people are complaining about these (or this) skin(s) in the ingame chat, and I think that fact alone is a valid proof that this is a problem that needs to be discussed and addressed.

2. Did you ever consider that camouflage is a subset of fighting/battle ?

I still think that Shootmania is trying to be a well balanced e-sports title and therefore, even though skins can create variety, I don't think that choosing skins should be a part of the tactics ingame. I thought the game was focusing on skill and reactions, not on finding ways to be better through usage of these kinds of tactics. Especially if you can turn them off anyway.

4. Every server operator can turn on/off custom skins. Every player can turn on/off custom skins.
On serious/pro servers, people will only wear team skins or no custom skins at all. And the op should enforece it,
if necessary.

That is true, but I think this would be kind of an overkill. I like skins and I want to see them ingame - disabling all of them is not a real solution here. I also heard that disabling skins as a server owner means disabling all P2P and therefore all images and custom sounds etc - that wouldn't help anyone really. But maybe I'm wrong there, I do not run a server myself.

3. From the technical point, you cannot tell apart a camouflage skin from a nations skin or a team skin.
Try to disable one and you will disable them all.

This is actually the biggest problem here, I fully agree. How do we determine which skins are problematic and which aren't? I honestly don't know. But I'm not sure if making every server owner enforce his own rules regarding skins could be more problematic than disallowing some globally.


tl;dr: I think this REALLY IS a problem that needs discussion, even if it was discussed before. The game is still in beta-phase and problems that could affect game play in the full release should not be taken lightly.
And if players are complaining about them, then there should also be time for a proper discussion about them.

Have a good one

R3al!ty.

P.S.: I understand that there are way more important issues to focus on, btw. Just wanted to get my opinion on this out there.

[tcq]

[...]But I'm not sure if making every server owner enforce his own rules regarding skins could be more problematic than disallowing some globally. [..]
R3al!ty.

Depending on the server owner, he will create the type of server he wants to have. If he does not disables custom skins that is fine and you will no that this server is not suited for serious eSport, but this doesn't mean it's less fun to play on it.
But overall, it seems like that you simply missed this point here, mentioned by TStarGermany. If you don't want to see custom skins, you don't have to.

4. Every server operator can turn on/off custom skins. Every player can turn on/off custom skins.
On serious/pro servers, people will only wear team skins or no custom skins at all. And the op should enforece it,
if necessary.
You don't like custom skins? Fine, TURN THEM OFF.

[Hylis]

it is simpler than that

a competition can set rules on which skins are allowed
a everyday game can be played with any skin
if we have time, the best would be to be able to unactivate, client side, the skin you dislike/find unfair (default skin to appear)

I like to see divertsity of skin, competitions can decide of rules, inbetween is inbetween ^_^

[R3al1ty]

[...]But I'm not sure if making every server owner enforce his own rules regarding skins could be more problematic than disallowing some globally. [..]
R3al!ty.

Depending on the server owner, he will create the type of server he wants to have. If he does not disables custom skins that is fine and you will no that this server is not suited for serious eSport, but this doesn't mean it's less fun to play on it.
But overall, it seems like that you simply missed this point here, mentioned by TStarGermany. If you don't want to see custom skins, you don't have to.

4. Every server operator can turn on/off custom skins. Every player can turn on/off custom skins.
On serious/pro servers, people will only wear team skins or no custom skins at all. And the op should enforece it,
if necessary.
You don't like custom skins? Fine, TURN THEM OFF.

I don't think I missed the point, I addressed it:

Disabling all skins is an overkill, if only some skins are the problem. The game profits from custom skins. (Team colours etc.) The problem is, if a server only wants to allow non-ghost skins, they have to discuss the issue with every player and kick him manually. That is time consuming and too much kicking on servers is always problematic.

I don't know, maybe it really is something that every server has to address by themselves and make their own rules, but imo the game should be competitive and balanced, even on public servers...

if we have time, the best would be to be able to unactivate, client side, the skin you dislike/find unfair (default skin to appear)

Maybe that could be a possibility , so filter lists could be built... But I'm not sure...

[TStarGermany]

I don't think I missed the point, I addressed it:

Disabling all skins is an overkill, if only some skins are the problem. The game profits from custom skins. (Team colours etc.)

Well, seems everyone has a different take. You only mind the ghost skin, Lukas pretty much minds all camou skins and IIRC Nazu minds ALL custom skins, even nation ones, because when playing team vs team, custom skins can be very irritating when the nation skins contain lots of blue and red colours.

For the latter case, I have this thought:
On team servers, the engine could/should only use the part of the custom texture which shows the huge backside emblem. That way, teams could still fly their own colors and yet offer the greatest visibility/distinctness .

if we have time, the best would be to be able to unactivate, client side, the skin you dislike/find unfair (default skin to appear)

That's a cool idea. Just let everyone decide if he wants to put a special skin on a "non-view" filter list. That way everyone can enjoy what he likes and avoid any annoyance.

[R3al1ty]

I don't think I missed the point, I addressed it:

Disabling all skins is an overkill, if only some skins are the problem. The game profits from custom skins. (Team colours etc.)

Well, seems everyone has a different take. You only mind the ghost skin, Lukas pretty much minds all camou skins and IIRC Nazu minds ALL custom skins, even nation ones, because when playing team vs team, custom skins can be very irritating when the nation skins contain lots of blue and red colours.

For the latter case, I have this thought:
On team servers, the engine could/should only use the part of the custom texture which shows the huge backside emblem. That way, teams could still fly their own colors and yet offer the greatest visibility/distinctness .

if we have time, the best would be to be able to unactivate, client side, the skin you dislike/find unfair (default skin to appear)

That's a cool idea. Just let everyone decide if he wants to put a special skin on a "non-view" filter list. That way everyone can enjoy what he likes and avoid any annoyance.

Yeah, you're right, maybe that is part of the problem: Everyone seems to have a different take on special skins, so maybe the filters for special skins would be the best possible idea.
Nadeo, if you actually have time and resources to implement that system, that would be a solution for the problem, wouldn't it?
And the game would become more customisable, which is always a good thing for esports titles.
e.g. teams could decide for themselves, if they want to see the other team's skin at all in competitive games...