Beta 3 RC1 laser tests

[dreammyw0w]

my team went snowboarding
If I could I would help you Hylis.

[kletz]

On this stream two teams play on B3:
http://fr.twitch.tv/teamdowntv1

[MuNgLo]

I still don't have tests

The ones from sadzealot are the most advanced, but are mainly playing with fences. What about removing them on the maps if they cause troubles and see what happens? Like I said, I will take constructive feedback from players who really test it, thanks.

over the last months

"The more I play, the more I get frustrated by destroyable rockets. Sometimes it gets simply ridiculous"
"you can get away with some ridiculous things atm"
" This makes the gameplay ridiculous and is unacceptable."
"Of watching devs make absolutely ridiculous design choices?"
"three arms that feel ridiculous"

I am used to it, but strangely, it looks like some people are saying the last version was really good

Castro said: "You should leave elite as it was before (perfect) and just make another gamemode with these changes"

so, you are probably ridiculous as well, since the tons of "ridiculous" that have been said about us.

I have ask for TheCastle and CrossRoads tests, and I see more energy from you to spam the forum than to bring positive tests. The majority of your posts on the forum are about being negative, while we are in beta, for tests.

Tests, tests, try to improve, test, test and once I see how good where the tests, the energy put to find improvements more than insults, then it will be easier to take the right decision for Elite. Preventing of doing anything in beta would be just ridiculous.

Hylis, if you only want positive tests then we're pretty much done.
There's a reason why tests isn't easy to get done. Everybody (that's any good) realize how these changes effect the game. The gameplay we had on castle was even more boring then I expected. Hope someone can get others players to do some testing but it might just not happen. It's so obvious what's wrong. How the gameplay changes and gets superboring. People might just not be up for it.

And the problems with the gameplay is stuff that just can't be fixed by not using fences, building new maps and so on. You will still end up with gameplay where whenever the defence has a laser it will act like a movable laserpad. forcing the attacker to move in cover, peek out and take pot-shots and thats just not a fun gameplay.
Making the defenders laser even slower on reload to balance is to add even more bordom to the game.
Trying to balance it with AP for the attacker would also add boredom since then rounds will get decided even more by which one of lasers, defence or attack that comes out on top. If the attacker gets more AP and defencelaser messes up you will have last 2 defenders up against an attacker that might be able to take multiple hits per defender he picks of which is another bad thing. It will certainly lead to even more boring 1v1 play on goal. That's one of the least entertaining situations on beta2 gameplay.

I'm not saying Elite-beta2 was perfect, not by a long shot. I'm saying that the changes in Elite-beta 3 is basically not Elite anymore. Some of beta3 changes can certainly be tweaked to fit the gameplay but laser on defence beside the occasional laserpad is a gamechanger across the board.

I'll see if I can muster up a test on crossroads but not betting on it. That's also a map not played in competitions anymore. It also has some clear problems easy to foresee. Like placing a defencelaser behind goal would probably be standard for any team. Forcing the attacker to go underground or do a hail-Mary across open ground.
Oh and also the fences.
And that's if you ban the nucleus from use. That map would be totally unplayable with nucleus on defence.
So a realistic scenario might be 1 or 2 laser then rockets on defence.

If I manage to round up people for a test I'll save replays myself and not try to have a warmupmatch since nobody wanted more play on castle after about 6 turns yesterday.

--EDIT--
Forgot to mention one aspect of the beta3 gameplay with only lasers on defence I noticed.
If an attacker manages to get to goal. It happened yesterday as people got bored and unfocused. Then he can rush the goal and each defender gets one shot each then nothing. All they can do is stand and watch.
Another boring aspect of the new gameplay.
Basically it means that a laserdefender is mostly useless in the end.

[Hylis]

you are right, I should have said constructive test
1. have the scores to discuss the balance
2. modify a little the maps to deal with first troubles
3. make good report, a little like you did
4. suggest things to improve on main issues instead of saying only to remove it

you can suggest balances, like nucleus should reload 10% slower etc.
you can suggest ideas, like laser and wallhack would only work on castle bloc, to create fear and maps balancing

etc.

after having receive all of this constructive tests, then we can more easily make decisions

[MuNgLo]

Just how do you think you can balance defencelaser so it doesn't make it a campfest? Especially if you take into accounts how just nerfing reloadspeed makes it less fun to play and even more useless when attacker rushes goal.

And yes it is a serious question.

[mzhh]

I have some ideaa, but dunno how can work

- Watching trough fence available only for attackers and not for the defenders (ONLY in case defenders have one rail) !
- Defender with rail with an Icon over the head (as it is now)
- Max range for rail defender (For exemple 50meters?)

Well, Just same ideas ...

Another idea:
Would be cool to have a "3v3 round only rocket" as a decider for who start attaking or defending the first round

[Rots]

To my mind all maps should be redisigned to fit with the current B3 elite gameplay... Its hard to make nucleus and laser fit out of the bunker-tunnel/laserpad zones...

Nucleus hit range should be reduced without touching the reload time...
You can either increase reload time for nucleus or slow down the nucleus defender speed/stamina to tweak the setting in order to "unOP" the nuc...

For defender, laser reload time should be the same if he hits or not... and the laser wallhack thunder (AC DC style ) should be shown each X secs in order to not make it predictable... the wallhack should be like and alarm showing each 3-4 secs

This should equilibrate things... at least its my humble opinion

[utzutz]

For defender, laser reload time should be the same if he hits or not... and the laser wallhack thunder (AC DC style ) should be shown each X secs in order to not make it predictable... the wallhack should be like and alarm showing each 3-4 secs

Actually the wh for the Attacker isn't much of a problem and being seen is the intention behind it, hence reducing it to an occassional blink renders it useless and the Defenders with lasers will have even more of an advantage. The Lasers on Def side are the problem, not the wh for the Attacker, that's just a small compensation !

[mzhh]

Yep, we must "help" the attacker, not the defenders

Try to imagine too seeing through the fence available only for the attacker and not for the defenders (only if defenders choice to have a railman )

[MuNgLo]

Making fence seethrough for some and not others is not a good way to go. Its counter-intuitive and makes the game harder to grasp for new spectators. Not to mention it would look like a bandaid on a broken gameplayconcept. Which it might very well be in many opinions.

Maybe a maxrange for laser on defence might be a way to go. limiting its bad impact on the gameplay. But that would also just be a bandaid in that it just limits the actual area attackers can't move in.

In my mind a laser on defence might be valid if it was used to say stun the opponents, not hurt. Or something more in those lines. It would add usefullness to being able to shot rockets and so on while u are stunned as attacker.
Maybe deliver a huge punch and knockback.
But as long as it takes armourpoints on hit it is to big impact on gameplay in a negative way.
Think of a laserdefender as a crowdcontroller equivalent from other games.

Oh yeah and Hylis. Balance isn't the issue really. It's the campfest it leads to. It's just boring all around.