Trackmania² Stadium Open Beta

[evolution75]

thanks

[DandyJ]

if you get cam2 on loops (the one where you can see your car), it's because of maps convertion from older games which is not working properly, and maybe will be fixed. if you get cam3 (when there's no car), well, it's normal...

Ah, ok. Yeah just some tracks the camera will be like directly above your car in 3rd person, it's really weird.

Pretty serious flaw for a game that thrives on user-generated content.

That's ironic... This is actually a consequence of user-generated content. Users can generate their own camera angles. If they want to point the camera at the wall instead of at your car, they are free to do so, and you are free not to play that track.
Apparently most people prefer these cameras, since they appear on many tracks.

What a silly thing to say...there is always going to be a standard to adhere by, no matter how much freedom the infrastructure offers. By that logic, why isn't anyone fighting against map validation? I want the right to make, upload, and attempt to distribute maps that can't be completed. Wait, no, that's completely stupid and hurts the game. There has to be a line drawn somewhere. I think being able to see where you're going falls on the enforceable side of that. The niche of users that want to race entire maps while looking at the front end of their car be damned.

[JumperJack]

that again is a silly thing to say (by the way, people have actually manage to hack validation and produced tracks that are either impossible or incredibly hard to finish).

anyway, custom cameras make it possible to create an amazing variation of tracks (for example 2D GTA2-style) or take any Crusard-track for that matter. if people would be able to go back to their own camera's, it would be unfair against those who do use the custom ones.

well, not even sure why i'm discussing this, since it is indeed one of the features of trackmania, one which indeed brings us the variation in user generated content that we have nowadays.

edit: also, the kind of tracks you are talking about, which are purely race tracks where people have (mis)used custom cameras. it's not a fault of custom cameras, but simply a wrongly produced track. blame the author for it.

[zarexz]

...there is always going to be a standard to adhere by, no matter how much freedom the infrastructure offers.

As far as my knowledge of trackbuilding goes, the standard is that, with loops and walls, you force the internal cam3.

[Tomei]

If this annoying camera changes aren't fixed MANY people will choose not to play the game. I know (from past experience) people will defend Stadium 2 until their blue in the face, just as they did with Canyon. But ultimately the numbers speak for themselves. Upon initial uptake Canyon did well with many people adopting the game and playing it. But soon enough those "little" annoyances become monotonous and take the fun out of the game. The people go elsewhere.

Here we are again (unlike TMNF for example) where the fundamentals of game play are set, accepted and most importantly, enjoyed by many thousands of players. We are in the same position as Canyon asking for things, integral things, .ie can we please see where we are supposed to be driving on a map, as its almost impossible to see when a vehicle exiting a loop does a 360 degree spin ..."little annoyance" ???

If the camera situation can be fixed, and I mean fixed as in exactly to TMNF standards, I say you've got the makings of an extremely fun to play game. Right now? Its frustrating and with some maps, not worth the time trying at all. I really want Stadium 2 to be successful. Its about time the greatest driving game ever got a face lift, but that's all it should have got. Everything else should have remained the same.

Time will tell ...

[PapyChampy]

...there is always going to be a standard to adhere by, no matter how much freedom the infrastructure offers.

As far as my knowledge of trackbuilding goes, the standard is that, with loops and walls, you force the internal cam3.

I can confirm that. It's clearly the easiest way to handle loops/wallrides for around 95% of players.

@ Tomei : I can understand that, however, I think you just have to let people some time to build some fresh tracks. They won't contain such camera bugs.
In my opinion (but I may be wrong), the re-use of previous tracks may not be the best solution on a longer timeline.

[zarexz]

If this annoying camera changes aren't fixed MANY people will choose not to play the game. I know (from past experience) people will defend Stadium 2 until their blue in the face

I'm not defending Stadium at all. In fact, I hate it with passion. I wanted it to stay where it was, away from maniaplanet because I allready knew, hardcore players wouldn't like it anyway, nomatter what. I'm just trying to point out the tracks wern't build good enough. In my old TMNF tracks (yes there was a time i did like stadium and I build tracks for it) all the camchanges are perfect and behave as expected.

And trying to blackmail anybody with the phrases "i will never play again" and such, don't really help. Let me help you: "Good Bye"

EDIT: Thanxz papychampy for the backup

[dreadofmondays]

The camera changes don't need to be 'fixed' because they aren't a bug. They are put there by players themselves, designing to a standard that 99% of people use. When you say 'many' people will leave because of these, how many do you mean? 3? 8?

Maybe this is the reason people disagreed with you the first time: because 99% of players have no problem with it

[JumperJack]

i guess he just means the camchanges that are bugged since the track was imported from TM1. maybe that'll get fixed, maybe not. we'll see. and as papy says, build new tracks, they won't have that bug.

[Tomei]

I completely understand where you are coming from on the issue of track builders and custom cam views, BUT, and its a huge but, the majority of players do not understand this. An example is the full speed server I was playing on today. Complaint after complaint from players (especially cam 2 drivers) saying at the start of each map "gla lets hope this map is drivable" more often than not a minute or two into the map a pop up on screen such'n'such player requesting vote to change to another map.

You may say "goodbye" or "if you don't like it leave" but those where the same comments fired at those who said negative things about Canyon, and people DID leave! You want the same for Stadium 2? That people leave? I say no. I say either fix it, or make it known to ALL players what the problem is because as it stands right now, most players think its a problem with the game itself.

Example was one comment today: "Its a BETA guys relax, Nadeo will fix the cam issues with an update soon" This comment in game was met with "I hope they fix it soon" from many players. So what happens when it not fixed because its a result of TM1 maps converted to TM2? How many players are going to stick around when to them, the game appears broken, or at the very least not like TMNF that their use too playing? Just tell them either like it or leave? Not good.

For myself I have been a cam 2 driver for years. I am finding it extremely difficult getting use to this camera angle. I honestly don't know if I'll ever get use to it, but I am trying. But I have been playing TM for years and I LOVE this game with a passion, it is the ONLY game installed on my computer, and it is the ONLY game I play every day. I payed for Canyon and played it for many months daily. My clan started a Canyon server and over time we lost members and eventually our server died for lack of use.

Please don't say "goodbye" or "leave" to people. Even if they complain. They complain because they want to love the game and play it having fun. I can tell you from the comments I have seen on servers in game, a LOT of people are not having fun with the cam views. Myself included. Should I just leave and go back to TMNF?