Official Petition we need Unlimiter Tool

[Xymph]

However, what I'm really against is this attitude that people seem to exhibit lately. They say that you can't build anything good unless you mix. Or that building is no fun without mixing. How polluted your minds have become. That idea is rubbish and simply not true. Mixing has become this excuse to be lazy. Instead of finding creative solutions while building a track, we just open up the unlimiter and take a shortcut. And the worst thing is ugly mixes. I don't know if the track builders simply don't care or are just too lazy to fix them. You know what I'm talking about.... flashing textures... odd objects sticking out of the roads everywhere... etc. I've seen these ugly mixes in many tracks, including ones used in big community projects like the RAID Title Pack, and in many PMC maps. I cringe every time I see them. I wonder to myself what a new player to the game will think when they see such a thing. They'll of course think the game sucks to have such bad graphics, not realizing that it's not Nadeo's fault, but an inept or uncaring builder that stooped to such a level.

That having been said... I'm not against unlimiter existing for those few people who need to use it in moderation, and can use it skillfully.

Right, so right.
During my checks for online cheaters in TMF, I view replays of -- or play -- many tracks each week, to verify whether the sector times of the suspected player are feasible on the given tracks. In my experience the vast majority of blockmixed tracks are, to put it mildly, a PITA. They suffer from all of the problems mentioned above, and then some, and many are just plain annoying to race on.

Supporting mixing officially would make this problem far more wide-spread, and the notion that it's not possible to build good tracks without it is just silly. So -1 from me as well.

[Hylis]

I have in mind to eventually make titles declare if they are compatible with it or not. I dream of the day I will browse the title and look at the back of the box and see what is in it. And "blockmix: yes or no" can be an example maybe. But I don't think that to impose it to main title users would be a good idea, even more if map makers would say to others that they are not making "expert stuff" if not using it. It would be the exact argument why I would not put it. And I would even say that opening it to custom titles could be a good reason to closing it to main titles, in order to avoid this mix question mix.

By the way, and I would like to say it again, I am against "petition" style of things. Eyebo and Xymph express arguments there, and others have expressed good ones, ideas and real feelings that I need to listen, of course. The goal is to try to find the best solution for a maximum of players to be happy, not to try to be more vocal than others in order to get something.

[Tipiizor]

As a mixmap maker, i am obviously for an official tool !
The blocmixing in Trial/RPG is very important and bring many many new possibilities.

On the other side, i really dislike bugs caused by a wrong use of it, building a mixed map without any bug is often harder than a non-mixed map but the result is so cool.

When i read that if a new player play for the first time and see a crappy mixed map he will say the game suck, i'd like to say its exactly the same if he joins a lol server where 90% of the maps are pure sh*t, it's up to admin of servers to select the good maps (mixed or not).

A good compromise (as already said) should be to allow it only in titles, the same way custom blocs are allowed.
I think is clearly the same thing since crappy/ugly/bugged custom blocs can be made and also beautiful ones.
If custom/mix stuff is only allowed in titles, it would preserve Nadeo clean image on "official" servers and players who wants to play something different can play titles

Even if Nadeo accepts to develop/finish/integrate this tool, i guess many month will pass so we need to keep it updated by a third person for the moment and use it wisely...

[Keras]

I don`t want an official unlimiter but I also think the current editor is a bit too restrictive.

I think we need a collision check for blocks. Make blocks placable anywhere as long as their 3D models do not collide with any other blocks. That would solve tons of problems in track making and still cause no flickering textures and will keep the blocks recognizable.

[zarexz]

@Keras

[Hylis]

Ideally:
1. a way to remove some of the useless limitations in current editor (unused space of aerial blocs)
2. a way for a custom title to allow mixmap + a hardcore access to it (can not make clean this easily)

btw, tipiizor, it is not only for the clean image, far from that.If the most powerful way to make a map would be to sit on a chair of spikes, I would be sad to advertise that or make it official, not for our image, but for the players feeling obliged to sit there. So, it is mainly because I don't want mapper to be forced to use something that is not clean in order to have the maximum set of features.

[om23]

good talk here, except those who don´t like unlimiting!

I would like to add a little word to this talk,
it´s: Hack or Cheat.
unlimiter is a little cheating tool, and this is obviously not legal

nevermind, I am one of this guys who love to blockmix and without it I don´t want to build maps.
Here I also started to think abaut playing less the game, becouse of less fun at all.
so, even if my maps often flicker, make transitions for noobs very unclear to pass and lamps comes out of the road
15 seconds maps with hardcore blockmix can be played, it´s a crazy challange of LoL-Tech-Skills and makes lot of fun compered to boring lol maps where there comes nothing up what could be funny.

The thx to this, is the mostly empty servers I run.
You see, the players can take the decision where to play and I pay for it, lol.

however, as I readed above, the idea of official button or how u call it in titles would be very well.
Hylis, as I remember u driving on my server twice. once in tmuf and once on canyon xD
and u allready said it, too.....

just do it,
add it with the next update,
just for fun,
just to see what happen,
if it isn´t cool u can remove it again with the next, like on economicals

br

ahh, btw.: with adding the button in next update u also could start a competition of blockmixed maps for official offline maps add on
the best maps get on it and if u don´t get enough maps or not enough good maps,
this could by the trigger to remove the button again!

[Hylis]

this is exactly why you need to be careful with mixmap. If you add it, like you say, it is hard to remove it. Economical points are still there btw, just that you don't see them as much

[om23]

I don´t think so.
Do u really think I have to be careful if it´s fun?

If you add it, like you say, it is hard to remove it.

no, you make it way to complicated.
just add it, the button to unlimited mapping beside of the other two buttons before u go to the editor.
to all editors, not only titles.
it´s becouse I really don´t have idea how to make a title :p

[zarexz]

good talk here, except those who don´t like unlimiting!

Be aware it's much more subtile then that.
Most people voting against an official unlimiter have little against good blockmixing.
If the sky is the limit, things will probably go crazy too much.