Stadium eSport Development

[Romain42]

You can not make rounds each week and hope people to be interested in that.

If a tournament happens often, it losses value. For instance, if Roland Garros was played 12 times a year, soon nobody would care about it. Whether or not the tournament itself is good. Watching in the past, it seems to me that players are soon bored when they play allways the same type of tournaments, that's why our seasons hardly last more than 10 weeks, which is already considered as very long by lots of players.

Make championship with regions and teams that people can attached to

That's something i thought to in the past. No doubt it should be possible in Stadium considering there are lots of players, but it would be short for Canyon and United.

one big race of 10 people

I definitely prefer when there are 10 or more players than the 1v1v1v1 schedule. It might be a bit messy to watch as a spectator, on another hand it ensures the runs will be disputed even if one or two players crash. Also, the simple fact that an unexpected player takes a run can be a surprise in itself.

I don't know all the existing formats, by far, and you probably is more aware of them.

Almost everything exists, and what doesn't exist is just to invent. It's a bit like Darwin's theory: we should create everything, and then the best forms survive.

So, there is really a difference between a fun mode to play, or to compete, and one that could be a perfect one to watch. In fun football with your friends, you don't have 1 goal every hour. You would rather make the goal wider to enable more actions. And it is not what football convention made when they move the size of the goals.

In the end, we rather agree. Rounds is better for players, Cup is better for spectators. No surprise that lots of players ask for Rounds. Football is a bit extreme as an example, there are far much more goals in Basketball, Hockey or Rugby. And to be honnest, Football is my sleeping pill. (i guess i'll be flamed by fans now )

[Miraculix123]

done

Does that mean "done" to my suggested feature? =)

[oiram456]

done

Does that mean "done" to my suggested feature? =)

it already implemented

[serujio]

then, with so good explanation about Nadeo´s point of view on esports, I guess that Zotac Canyon, Zotac Shootmania and Shotmania $100.000 tournament are like what was the Canyon 2011 Dreamhack tournament for Nadeo. They are tournaments pushed by Ubisoft or local organizers which Nadeo is not too much involved, not more then giving technical support or something more related to the core of the game instead of the tournament itself.

it makes sense to me that Nadeo supports ESWC, which has a big audience live and on stream, also makes sense to do the GamersAssembly, which is something like a Maniaplanet meeting. But Zotacs and the $100.000 tournament are not making sense at the moment, because they are pro tournaments where only few pro players will win, don´t have a big audience, and they happened on games that don´t have a big community yet.

just trying to understand this better.

[Miraculix123]

Visible drifts in spectator mode and more options on cams is that anything you considered in making this update Hylis?

1) Benefits as i see it would be that wiewers would be able to see clearer how different lines affects the outcome of speed and consistency.
2) Would feel more real and make the matches more satisfying to watch trough more depth.
3) Would be a great tool to improve some turns while watching others doing better slides.

Disadvantages
1) An effort for developers that might take alot of time
2) Have to change things in the graphic engine?
3) Would require stronger CPUS and create lagg for people with weaker computers and internet?

Have you reviewed this and/or what are your toughts Hylis?

Regards

[Hylis]

then, with so good explanation about Nadeo´s point of view on esports, I guess that Zotac Canyon, Zotac Shootmania and Shotmania $100.000 tournament are like what was the Canyon 2011 Dreamhack tournament for Nadeo. They are tournaments pushed by Ubisoft or local organizers which Nadeo is not too much involved, not more then giving technical support or something more related to the core of the game instead of the tournament itself.

it makes sense to me that Nadeo supports ESWC, which has a big audience live and on stream, also makes sense to do the GamersAssembly, which is something like a Maniaplanet meeting. But Zotacs and the $100.000 tournament are not making sense at the moment, because they are pro tournaments where only few pro players will win, don´t have a big audience, and they happened on games that don´t have a big community yet.

just trying to understand this better.

Our goal is to support things as what we are. One eSport is made by passionate players for passionate players. eSport made by publisher is something else, as well as marketing. And think I am more in the passionate category, or at least would like to have even more time to be myself and with the dev team. It answers about the skidmarks, it is just a matter of having time and priorities. But having Stadium into Maniaplanet was the priority, of course.

[tk_v2]

Read through all the posts here. I am a person that believes in simple language, it can be easily understood and can draw a picture as beautiful as any other. So let us begin

Something I saw after the very first page. You are not allowed to point out the flaws or leave harsh (not necessarily true) comments unless you kiss-ass while doing it. Not even going into details with that, not here to start a massive flame war, just a tiny, controllable one. But I'll leave this for the mainly off-topic rant at the end of the post, sorry.

The eSports scene in TM2s has huge potential, why has it not taken off as well as it could? That is not my field of knowledge, so I won't comment on something I know nothing about.
What I would like to see is

- A better co-operation between the eSports-community and Nadeo.

All the other things mentioned in this thread do not take the priority for me as I've given up long ago on bugs being fixed, it's just a part of the game (TMNF).
What TM2S needs is a strong base, meaning you fix the already existing problems before looking into adding more, new stuff. It's like building a tower of LEGOs on your damn cat, as soon as it gets thirsty and leaves your tower is done for.
I represent the FullSpeed scene with all my heart and joy. HUGE props to ESL and Clan-organized tournaments and Cups for keeping alive what is the most popular type of gameplay. I'll never understand why FS does not take off, it is for me the most attractive style of play for new players as it mainly uses 1 button less - the brake (let's not talk about s4d or ab). It is just as detailed as tech is and requires just as much precision with all the tricks and elements that can not be used well in Tech like big corkscrews, turnovers, combinations of wall pieces and the wallrides themselves. Are these not the traits/elements that make the modern TM appealing to new players? How many other games gave these?
My question is, why has there been so little effort to popularize FS as a competitive scene? These could just be my very delusional views, of course, but it just makes no sense to me. I believe FS is a big part of the future, which the current beta of TM2S does not support that well. This is still a beta, I get that, so I'm sticking around until the full release to speak my mind.


Lastly, what I'm going to do is take a jab at Hylis. I am not here to take anyone's side, so I'm not saying that FB is the godly poster of correctness. I understand that people sometimes do not have the vocabulary or simply have a very limited means of expression often resulting in saying the same thing over and over again. How many times are you going to bring up how scaring FB's first comment was? Or that you're a super positive guy? Discussing progress isn't about being positive all the time. That kind of thinking only stacks up the problems until they burst out into the huge shitty pile that they are. You need to face the criticism and give proper answers instead of starting a stupid argument. We as the players are grateful for everything that every single one of the staff members has done, why the hell do you fell it is needed to remind you this with every post made? We paid for the game, didn't we? It is in both of our interests to make this game a better place so we point out the things we do not like, the things that can be improved, the things that in our opinion are causing problems and could be dealt with differently. It is your choice to answer to those concerned, but god damn man, if you're going to do it, keep an open mind to all the thoughts, I don't believe that anyone here is under the age of 16.

[Romain42]

About FS... According to what i have seen in TMU (but it was the 7 environments, hence a bit different than for stadium only), players who play fullspeed are less interested in tournaments, and even in rounds mode. Maybe it's parly because, as you said, they have a less hardcore way of gaming.

In my opinion, the fullspeed maps fit less to rounds mode since once you made a mistake, even small, you can't really recover. You can't often avoid the crash, and when you crashed you can't come back. Rounds on technical maps are a bit more uncertain.

Also, it seems to me that the mass of players is less and less attracted by competitions and tournaments, although a small minority among them (the pros) are getting more and more involved. It's really a problem according to me: you can't have a successful eSport scene if there is not a huge number of fans that play the same game (and playing lol-maps in TA is not the "same game" than playing tournaments, just like playing with a ball doesn't make your game soccer).

Anyway, a style of maps/games will rise if there are enough people to support it. I mean, FS tournaments might rise if the FS teams are motivated to create a league and to support it. An established tournament organizer could support you, but i advise you to consider the option of doing the things by yourself. Any organization can have lots of reasons to support you or not and you can't really control it. It's allways more comfortable to rely on oneself than to depend on somebody else. Furthermore, you know the teams and the players, they don't.

About eSport in general:

Of course, a better communication would help, but i think Hylis is already trying hard on this side. We could suggest better ways of communication (and i almost did it when i suggested we could've been asked before the creation of the competition tool, although it would've been better to do it before). In my opinion, the main problem is that there are not enough people to manage everything. Nadeo is rushing, most of the tournaments organizers have really small admin teams, and we have to make work the things... Don't forget co-operation needs a lot of time (talks, organization, and so on). To rise eSports, we don't need only players and future champions, we need also lots of admins for the management of tournaments... And we can't say the actual level is bad: there are competitions for all the versions of the game at the Gamers Assembly, TMNF used to be the most played racing eSport game for years, and TMU had a strong competition community regarding its size (competitors/casual players ratio).

[infarctus]

TMUF does better than u say. Since there are more competitiv players than casual lol...And this is very unique in video games history

[Romain42]

Server and spectator improvements you suggest could be great, although having two types of servers might be confusing for new players.

i think that Nadeo needs to be more implicated in export by providing packmaps (so event organizers knows which one to take).

Because events organizers are not wise enough to select their own mappacks? Thanks...

The whole concept of TM is to enable players to custom anything and a map can be learned in few hours... I don't really see the point to use the same maps everywhere, except to make the games boring and repetitive, and to kill the motivation of mappers. Do you insinuate eSports players are lazy and don't want to train? Is that a good showcase of what our community is?