Blocks on the ground: why stop here ?

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A.Palabrsky
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Joined: 07 Jan 2013, 23:12

Blocks on the ground: why stop here ?

Post by A.Palabrsky »

First things first, thank you nadeo for this update that brings alot.

I am glad to see that some blocks were updated to allow placement on the ground like these
Image
Image

But is there a technical reason that makes impossible the placement on the ground of blocks like these:
Image
or the most famous:
Image
The last one is used in many tech maps, in competition maps, I think it would be cool not to be forced to blockmix these. It would reduce the amount of requests like "I want an ingame blockmixer!". In the end, I would prefer an increase in placement possibilities of existing blocks rather than new blocks.

The simplest thing I also would like to see in a future update would be the possibility to create the blue concrete ground without the inelegant white roof.
Image
It is sometimes really boring to try and hide this roof, by placing it as high as possible when it doesnt fit in the existing scenery... Why not put this blue ground in the same category as grass, water, and dirt ? I mean, it is already a ground type.

Lastly, it would reaaaaaally make sense to turn the placement type of inclined blocks into road-like placement.
It may be a bit hard to imagine, it could be a transparent inclined grid where the mapper can drag roads. On this grid, the Y axis would correspond to the "blue" blocks, and the X axis would correspond to the "yellow" blocks.

Advantages:
- unified mapping tree. Originally, inclined blocks are the same as flat blocks, the only difference is the angle with the ground. It would make more sense to be able to change the angle of mapping rather than expanding the mapping tree. That could give something like:
Image
- being able to cross inclined roads. Because nadeo created a separated tree for inclined blocks, they couldnt make a comprehensive list of blocks. It lacks all the crossings like T or +
- easier, more intuitive mapping imo

Ask for more details or if i'm unclear :)
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TMarc
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Re: Blocks on the ground: why stop here ?

Post by TMarc »

One reason is to force slopes - to have smooth transitions between different levels.
If you place the blocks like this _/ possibly the car couldn't even climb it, or it would get stuck driving down \_.
Please don't forget the car is relatively flat, so it would hit the road with the front wing.
You can also say it is a gameplay related decision.

Another reason is that the developpers simply did not thing of all the possibilities.
E.g. it is possible to lay a grid (4-x-x) on the grass, but the grid can't be placed on the new straight underground block (7-1-1) althought there is enough space there.

Yeah, many possibilities can only be achieved using blockmixing, but this is a different topic ;)

Interestring idea with the new block tree :thumbsup:
I only fear the below yellow icons will not be readable everywhere.
It is already sometimes difficult to make out what block is displayed on small screens,
but with the time you get used to it.
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A.Palabrsky
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Re: Blocks on the ground: why stop here ?

Post by A.Palabrsky »

I'm sorry, i actually disagree on many points :lol:
About smoothness of slopes:
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. ... 62149#auto
It works perfectly, there is definitely an impact, not that smooth, but the bouncing effect helps the drift. I'm not making that up, it is used in competition maps ;) no problem on speed or whatever. It is even interesting to notice that, with enough speed, the front wing can pass over the inside angle in this kind of turn, allowing some crazy drifts.

http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. ... 43344#auto
I'd really like to be able to built this without blockmixing. It is useful (and already widely used), it makes sense, it isn't buggy... The whole question is: why update only these blocks (4-2-2, ...) ? Why not also the most useful ones ?

The grid, the new underground roads (and many other blocks) can't be contained in only 1 elementary volume. Some parts of the block are out of this volume so nadeo has to extend the space area where you can't put other blocks.
For example, the borders of water areas aren't flat, they have a small height. That's why you can't put road on it.
That's not the same problem with 3-4-x or 2-2-x, 2-3-x, 2-4-x. I can't figure out where is the problem, considering 2-1-4 is possible, even 3-5-x are all possible...

And finally, yeah I only made a suggestion about a new way of building slopes, more effective, intuitive, comprehensive. I didn't really focus on the interface; it was only to make myself clear ^^
YonCan
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Re: Blocks on the ground: why stop here ?

Post by YonCan »

A.Palabrsky wrote:Why not put this blue ground in the same category as grass, water, and dirt ? I mean, it is already a ground type.
+1 :thumbsup:
Hubby
Posts: 127
Joined: 15 Jun 2010, 18:30

Re: Blocks on the ground: why stop here ?

Post by Hubby »

YonCan wrote:
A.Palabrsky wrote:Why not put this blue ground in the same category as grass, water, and dirt ? I mean, it is already a ground type.
+1 :thumbsup:
+ 2 ;)
And also that small 'tech block' ( 3-4-1 ?)

Regards, Hub
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Whitestar
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Re: Blocks on the ground: why stop here ?

Post by Whitestar »

Fully agree Palabrsky.

Also, 3-1-6 and 3-1-7 should be made compatible with some of the new tunnel exits.

And a new loop (in same style as 2-1-6 and 2-1-7) as a new tunnel exit. It's possible to link the existing loops to a tunnel exit, but it's not very smooth.

Maybe in next update, Nadeo? :thx:
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TMarc
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Re: Blocks on the ground: why stop here ?

Post by TMarc »

you don't need to apologize for having a different opinion ;)
And you also don't necessarily need to try to convince me... you have to convince Nadeo to do the changes :lol:
I only needed some more examples to fully understand,
and the tracks i'll check out later then if time permits :thumbsup:
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A.Palabrsky
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Re: Blocks on the ground: why stop here ?

Post by A.Palabrsky »

I found it hard to say that I think I have a bit more experience than you :?

To convince Nadeo, I don't know what else to do.

- For the blue ground, it sounds like the simplest thing to do technically. The blocks that created blue ground now act the same way on grass and on dirt: no blue ground created. It's up to the mapper to decide. Please Nadeo, that's not much and it would definitely be a big improvement.
- For the blocks on the ground, I thought it would never be done. Then they release an update with improvement, but still not enough. That's the right way, now finish the work ! (sounds pretty convincing, right ?)
- For the new way of building slopes, I doubt it will be done but I couldn't keep the idea for myself.

However, with the new underground blocks, the forbidden placements appear clearly. What can you place after a 7-3-3 on the yellow link ? Almost nothing. Something needs to be done here.

Don't worry these aren't even maps, they last 6s, check the replays to see how it's supposed to be taken. I made a little series of many common turns.
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TMarc
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Re: Blocks on the ground: why stop here ?

Post by TMarc »

A.Palabrsky wrote:I found it hard to say that I think I have a bit more experience than you :?
yeah, thanks. It would have been a bit arrogant as such. :oops:
I know well I'm not good at many things, so it is more than fair to admit what others can do much better :lol: :thumbsup:
Everyone has different experience, mine has turned more towards the forum itself, due to lack of time to try out just everything in all details. Luckily we are many here 8-)
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TMarc
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Re: Blocks on the ground: why stop here ?

Post by TMarc »

There is a similar report, with an answer from Nadeo here: http://forum.maniaplanet.com/viewtopic. ... 20#p172303
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