Stadium is great, but I have two small complaints

[riolu]

63 tracks x 30 minutes each one -> 31,5 hours
Now add TM United (much more maps) and Canyon and here we go over 200hours, not everbody plays that much.

Then spread these "200" hours on the 5 years I've played this game so far. Pretty sure even you played so much because according to your signature you were in the world's top10 for quite a while, which means you played at least 3h at Sundays. That would be ultra-nolife according to your argumentation.
And I had to lol hard when you said this:

that's what I call nolife. And this shouldn't sound insulting, it just means that someone is able to have so much time to play videogames. Whether it is that you have no Job, no other hobbies (and if you do sports, have a job etc. you don't have that much time) etc. It's just a lifestyle

So everyone, even the 12-year-old kid bragging on Facebook for half an hour is a nolifer as well? gg

[Extraneous]

I personally find wallbangs quite helpful, on Valley at least - they're much better than braking for slowing down, as many people have complained. I like it, though - I think it could be one of the quirks of the Valley environment. I agree that 5mins for an official time seems too long - for me, I get bored of a track once I get a 'perfect' completion a few runs in a row (good line on all corners, no crashes except the ones for going round corners easily), but it takes me past this point and then some to be able to guarantee good driving on an official run - maybe 2 or 3 official runs does it once I have the track down. This leads to a time per track of 30-45 mins, not counting the amount of time I lose (and it's a lot of time) if anything distracts me and I have to come away from practice for a few minutes. I mean, 5 mins is one entire Time Trial round! (Can we have one free official run of a track after playing it in Time Trial? Well, no, because they're not Nadeo tracks)

I do support some form of timer, but 5 minutes seems a bit long, is what I'm saying if you didn't read that.

[kripkee]

I (konte) currently work on a manialink to "avoid" the 5-minutes counter. You can play there all Nadeo maps in Canyon/Stadium/Valley. I don't like the 5 minutes counter too, but it is since ~2 years a part of maniaplanet. The release of this manialink should be done in the next week - included the informations how does it works.

Anyway, riolu has a upload button

[Wormii]

30 mins per map nolife?

[Slamtrain]

For some reason, the title of my post went from "This game is great..." to "Valley is great..." even though I'm talking about Stadium.

I don't know. haha

In any case, it should take someone longer than 30 minutes to make an official world record. To me, that suggests that the true frame-perfect record is still way far away. Or you spend a great deal of time playing this game.

While the "no lifer" tag isn't necessarily fair, I can assure you that acceleracer has spent a ridiculous amount of time in this game. He said he's played for 5 years, which is great, but as someone who has dabbled in professional gaming, the time commitment required is massive. You can't just pick up and play a game and be professional-level good at it. It requires a great time investment.

That said, the timer is an elitist thing. Sure it does teach consistency, but I don't even bother to try it until I've learned the track. Then when I make a tiny miscue (because in this game it's really easy, especially when you combine the physics of this game and the use of a keyboard to drive) I have to wait 5 minutes to try again.

Sure, it DOES teach consistency, but what's the point? Are the top-tier players really afraid of someone grinding out ranked runs until their time is beaten? If not, then why have the timer? And if so, who's to say that player wouldn't have peaked higher than them anyway?

[edk]

I'm for any system that cannot be exploited. Online currencies can and have been exploited. As such, I am against their use for official tries. As far as the timer goes, I think it's the best solution. I really could care less if it was a 30 minute timer, or a 1 minute timer, or a 10 minute timer. I like 5 minutes the best because it's the most average.

But this brings another question which apparently is causing confliction. What are official runs supposed to represent? Are they supposed to be your PB? Are they supposed to be an average run? What does changing the length of the timer change in regards to what official times represent?

As it is now, I consider official runs to be representative of our average runs. If you crash on official tries, then crashing is probably what your average run looks like. I tend to run official tries until I have a slightly better than average run. I have almost no PBs that are official times, most represent my average, or slightly above average run. This is what I feel official tries are supposed to represent in the current system, average skill. I think making the timer longer would be pointlessly punitive, I think we all agree on that much.

On the flip side, what does making the timer shorter accomplish? Take it to the extreme: If there is no timer at all, then it is just spamming tracks, back to back to back for official tries. That doesn't showcase skill, it doesn't showcase consistency because in this scenario a track is attempted until an anamolous lucky good time is attained. Lucky runs are what we have TMX for, it's what we have unofficial world records for.

Perhaps we should just be allowed to upload are Personal bests across the board? I am not opposed to that either. Like was jokingly referred to in a previous post, perhaps they could just give as an upload button. Then just give us a limit on the number of uploads we get per 24 hour period, say 10 maximum per 24 hours (low number because of the following sentence below).

Although it should be noted that Nadeo original indicated the 5 minute timer was put into place to limit bandwidth and server use. I don't think it's cheap to have thousands of players uploading tries all the time.

Sorry if some of this is half thought out, I have had too much caffeine today and am quite tired from playing Valley. But I think the gist of my thoughts are clear.

[2222222]

As it is now, I consider official runs to be representative of our average runs. If you crash on official tries, then crashing is probably what your average run looks like. I tend to run official tries until I have a slightly better than average run.

My official runs for those tracks I have high skill points on repressent a combination of my best skill together with big luck. When training a track for hours many days in a row there are in fact a lot of official trials. 1 hour of playing gives 12 official runs. If I want to significantly improve a time on a track that I already know well, it's hours after hours of training and trying, day after day. That gives me a really good amount of official trials. I generally tend to play better on the official trials. I'm more experimental on the training runs or focusing on training some particular part of a track.

Take it to the extreme: If there is no timer at all, then it is just spamming tracks, back to back to back for official tries. That doesn't showcase skill, it doesn't showcase consistency because in this scenario a track is attempted until an anamolous lucky good time is attained. Lucky runs are what we have TMX for, it's what we have unofficial world records for.

I don't think so. Luck is not enough to beat the best players. Only perhaps if you have extraordinary big luck, like winning a million dollars in a lottery. Personally I have never been able to beat any top player times, not matter how high skill level, luck or time spent. Skilled players are always going to be the winners no matter how the competition is arranged.

[edk]

I don't think so. Luck is not enough to beat the best players. Only perhaps if you have extraordinary big luck, like winning a million dollars in a lottery. Personally I have never been able to beat any top player times, not matter how high skill level, luck or time spent. Skilled players are always going to be the winners no matter how the competition is arranged.

This example wasn't to showcase how less skilled drivers may overcome more skilled drivers. It's to show that a change in the timer will alter what official times are representative of. It's simply a description that if there is no timer whatsoever we will see times which players are less consistent with. As an example, let's say on a specific track A08 Canyon, I can consistently get 18.70 give or take. With the 5 minute timer, I played the track until I got an 18.66, slightly better than average. Now, if there was no timer, I could have gotten an 18.63. I am not consistent with 18.63, it is a lucky run.

I agree with you that competition arrangement will not affect the better drivers rising to the top.

[tcq]

What about an extension of this 5-min timer system?
One thing that would probably be a good way to combine a timer with training could be something like the following proposal.
Let's say you need to drive 5 runs on an average one minute track until you can go for the first official try, if we havethe 5-min timer
Why not give players the possibility to accumulate official tries on a map? A player drives one day 50 times this map, but never uses the official tries, because he thinks he is not good enough yet. So effectively, he wasted 5 official attempts. What if the driver could get this 5 tries booked for him to drive them once a week? If he does not, they get deleted and he needs to do it again next week. Of course he can still go for the official tries with the 5 min timer. There should be of course a limit of, how many tries can be accumulated and how often in a week you can accumulate times. For example 10 tries 5 times a week as a maximum, to still have the pressure when aiming for an official try.

Through this system, longer mpas will also get some significant attention because you will have the feeling that you now have at least a chance to drive a good time in relation to you effort in the training.

But this are just my thoughts, haven't really played solo since the startrack campaign because I didn't like the timer system

[YonCan]

I agree with edk I'm a casual player and I need some luck to get top times. Nevertheless, I prefer the timer because it rewards consistency and real skill above pb spamming with some lucky shots. Of course, the players who spend more time driving (I will not enter the discussion how long you have to play per day to become a nolifer ) have better official times in the average. But just that is fair, isn't it? Otherwise their effort wouldn't be rewarded.

@tcq: Nice proposal.