Maniaplanet Update #2 - feedback (#2.3 released)

[PapyChampy]

But by the way I agree with Kryw, the game is good enought, and I think we need more block to diversified the game, people are bored because it's "always the same", defensive closed map with at least one fence near the pole.
Fence are over-used because powerfull in def.
And in my opinion, you have spend too much time on wood-block when we need more "basics block/combo block" too make good maps.

Personal opinion : the blocks collection is fine and rich enough in possibilities.
It's more the way blocks are used that is wrong. Most Elite mappers build their maps the lazy way, and reject any new pattern that could bring the game further.

[Rots]

Personal opinion : the blocks collection is fine and rich enough in possibilities.
It's more the way blocks are used that is wrong. Most Elite mappers build their maps the lazy way, and reject any new pattern that could bring the game further.

Indeed. mainstream maps

This is a message to maniactu drakonia etc mappack admins and the voters.

[Hylis]

This is not a remove, but yeah, "micro" jump are not that "micro" now, can you find a right middle ?
And can you try to re-implant the "fast reload" (with an option to activate it) but only in Elite on the railgun in attack ? I think it was a good things, but overcheated on Rockets.

(...)

the game is good enought, and I think we need more block to diversified the game

Fence are over-used because powerfull in def.
And in my opinion, you have spend too much time on wood-block when we need more "basics block/combo block" too make good maps.

Good post

- I agree that fast reload is good (it is on Elite non beta 2 btw, but nerf at 30% I think) It is maybe a good idea to increase it, but keep down the rocket (I don't know)

- I would like to find a right middle, but as for now, it is best to remove a controversial mecanic that could bring some macro abuse, but more importantly for me, something that is not in the continuity of a robust gameplay (the binary limit that existed between one timing an another was not cool)

- so, we may look to add another mecanic, one day, to give some way to diversify the feeling of the gameplay. I am thinking at giving a specific function to double click, but designed as it is, with a good sensitivity frontier and maybe a continuity between one and another, I don't know. There are many things we want to make, and having little flaws before may prevent us to do good thing in the future if we let them now.

- you can not judge of the time we spent in the wood block without knowing how we are organised here. We had to finish the collection of wood for organisonal purpose, not for the pure priority of these blocks. Avoid to judge our priority, since it is not always that simple. It is like people that made critics about the arrow pad versus code based stuff. It depends on who is working on what.

- I totally agree that solid cover and diversity is a must, and we are working on some stuff. We will do more fences also to close the collection. Fences means seeing things without being vulnerable. It is a powerful tool in a map editor, but should not be used to close the maps, of course. I even intend to let the ping go through, since it could be done through teamspeak, and that I look at making the gap smaller between the two situations (not to frustrate experts, but to enable new players to climb in the game without having a big step of having to team speak to have any first results)

- We should not make too much of basic blocks. It is fast to do, some players would stop to complain in half a day of work, but that's not doing them any good favor. The game should not transform itself to a freeride land of cubes. Hardcore can do with it, but the game suffer more of not being the opposite. In opposition to Canyon or Valley, for example, Storm lacks of a environmental feeling. So, we are working on it a little more atm. If you look at this screenshot You can see what I am talking about. There is a need to incarnate a little more the things. The blue path are somehow a sample. A pure block of steal would not help at the moment. I hope you understand.

- I agree a little with Papychampy, more on the fact that there is already many blocs (and we add more often) to explore possibilities. It is another way to bring diversity, and good TM mappers knows well about doing diversity out of less

Anyway, good post. I think we share the same feelings for many points. It is mainly a matter of patience. We are working on demo system at the moment, to bring more people in. We are working on a simplification of the UI to welcome players on an experience that is simplier (Storm is more than Elite alone, by far) and give the opportunity the players that enjoy the game to invite friends.

[xXSoOnXx]

Wihout microjumps, the game will be slow, very slow !
if you will really remove that, please found another idea to be fast in game (only jump & stamina is ridiculous and slow)

[Kryw]

Why 99% of top players dislike SM ? I can remember how players from cs 1.6 loved this game just for the gameplay they played mix since 5 am, we can see that on SM ? nope

[jonthekiller]

Personal opinion : the blocks collection is fine and rich enough in possibilities.
It's more the way blocks are used that is wrong. Most Elite mappers build their maps the lazy way, and reject any new pattern that could bring the game further.

Indeed. mainstream maps

This is a message to maniactu drakonia etc mappack admins and the voters.

I want this since the beginning like ESL but players not, and it's the problem. We are not mappers and we can't force easily.

[MuNgLo]

Munglo, so you say that many points are less bad for the game in itself than for new players. It is really difficult to keep everything instantly known by a new player, but the goal is that most knowledge that is required does not prevent to play before. I am pretty sure that there will be guides etc.

For tri laser, the initial crosshair has three dots on it. You need to register a hit on each of these three dots to hit your target. It's an help, but not a clear explanation. I am not sure that games like Starcraft, Leagues of Legends or Counter-Strike were more clear at start, or even more clear now thinking how much knowledge you need to know to perform (including maps) Shootmania is designed to be closer to sport, where the knowledge in itself is less important than the skill alone. The training is useful in both situation, one to learn things, the other to practice and master things. For example, we try to avoid maps that are like labyrinth where you don't know where you have to go, therefor, there are some blocks to avoid for this. It would be stupid to add stuff without being careful. Another exmaple is providing defense allies location. A new players would be handicap a lot compared to teamspeak mates without it, so it's better to give it. Anyway, I think we agree it can be improved.

That's what we usually do: we add a feature, and improve on it. Look at the progressive jump that some players was saying that the community did not wanted it. I don't think coming back to a single full jump would be validated by "the community" (which means no that much, since there is a lot of diverse oppinions)

No I'm not saying it is less bad for game. I'm saying many things are implemented in a stupid and convoluted way. Thus making it harder for new players to understand the game.
A player that has played instagib 10 years can jump into instagib in SM and have no success at all compared to other games. He can only conclude that the game is bad and lacking in quality.

You say that you want to make it easier for new players to pick up the game but then you make so many decisions that makes it so much harder for them.


On a side note. Will you ever fix the pointerrelease problem with multimonitor systems? You have a button for releasing the pointer but you decided to force pointer on deaths so people like me end up clicking on another screen, minimizing the game, forcing reset of monitor, then same in reverse to get back into game.
Basically only option when you want to play halfserious is to turn any other screen of.

Oh and when will your game understand sound devices properly? Headphones are not an option for maniaplanet even if it is for every other application on the computer. And no I'm not alone on that issue either.

[Bramble]

I want this since the beginning like ESL but players not, and it's the problem. We are not mappers and we can't force easily.

I think everyone runs into this problem, not just in SM but in TM too. You try to put some diverse maps in competitions and all you get in return is the players raging.

[Hylis]

Wihout microjumps, the game will be slow, very slow !
if you will really remove that, please found another idea to be fast in game (only jump & stamina is ridiculous and slow)

I think that you are right that it would be better if we find something else to make another move possible (I like diversity of possibilities) but I doubt we will be in a situation to do it "soon" (sorry too tempting)

It was really complicated, but on the long run, I believe it is the best solution. Remember the fulljump time:

What about progressive jumps? I think they are even more of an annoyance and have more of an impact on game imbalance than even +0's. The delayed feel and complete removal of risk when jumping needs to be addressed before release. It's just frustrating to run around by yourself let alone in the middle of a fight. Progressive jumps make the game feel clunky and slow.

Kryw, it is mainly because they are from other games. And like you saw on CS 1.6, nothing else was good to them after (or Quake) You don't even realize how absurd is your sentence when you say that 99% of top players dislike the game they are playing. Because, if they are playing it, it means it is only some money seeker (or they can do competition on other games)

I know many people that like the Shootmania gameplay, and it is enough. Top players of tomorrow will be people that will like the gameplay, as for Trackmania.

[Akbalder]

- I agree a little with Papychampy, more on the fact that there is already many blocs (and we add more often) to explore possibilities. It is another way to bring diversity, and good TM mappers knows well about doing diversity out of less

I think that there's already enough blocs in Storm but having new blocs regularly is great to motivate us to create new maps.