Maniaplanet Update #2 - feedback (#2.3 released)

[MuNgLo]

It isn't good to have the scene so divided as it is over B2 and B3. Especially since you don't develop the new features to work with B2. One of them needs to go.
After that you can work on making B3 walljump as good as B2 walljump.(assuming you would choose B3)

Problem with B2 wj is that they are hard to pull off if you want to make some fancy jumps. But you can still do them consistently enough to use in a match if you practice enough. There are an element of randomness on specific walls and places but that is something you need to know to be good at B2 wj's. Now there is a lot of players within Elite that has learned how to exploit B2 wj's enough to really make some kick ass moves. It just took a long time to get there.

Problem with B3 wj's is that they are so dumbed down you can't use them for anything fun. You cant even climp a wall off standard hight in a corner* which is something used with a 90% or more succesrate of a decent B2 jumper.

Sometimes when we connect to a server it is in B3 mode. How people with a good skilllevel in Elite can't feel the difference immediately is beyond us in Bazinga. But we like to jump more then most.


* as the one to get over the archway wall on Paladin back/left-side.

I am quite confident that if we put the underlying polygon issue that have into the Beta 2 walljump to obstacle players, they would be quite sad. In fact, some defrag players that went to play on Shootmania were pretty happy of the greater stability of it. I know it is less dynamic, but that's a little like the micro jump, it is a compromise to make things more solid, not a testimony of bad taste of our part, I hope ^_^

Forget what makes B2 worse. It is the good part of B2 walljumps we would like to see in B3. Making B3 wj's as useful as B2 wj without the negativity of randomness is what we would like. I don't play obstacle at all and the few times I tried it it has been so limited when it comes to wj.

[pksens]

Guess the money I spent on an expensive mouse is wasted now then, thanks.

lol . So many players did the same thing, Hylis was inadvertently helping out the peripheral market. Should have we spent on advanced ££ headphones so we can garner advantages from that without fear of that ever being nerfed..

[caspa]

Surely the next step is to force everyone to use 60hz, cause having any sort of advantage is bad right? I mean, I paid a fair amount of money for a 120hz monitor but not everyone has one..

Regarding microjumps: I just don't understand why the developers would choose to render (what has become) an integral part of the game completely useless.

So, I understand the frustration, but we are making it for the lifetime of the game on the long run, not the short term.

Also, this is where I believe that you are wrong. I'm not expecting you to respond to this as every post I've made on these forums has so far been ignored - but you don't have to be heavily involved in the competitive community to realise that the numbers are dropping every week and ESWC is more or less the only reason that many players are still somewhat interested in the game. My point is: right now you need to think about the short-term.

Obviously its your game and you can do whatever the hell you want with it, but there comes a time when people get fed up and it doesn't take a genius to recognise that.

Extra edit: It doesn't particularly matter too much about the b3 changes since the competitive community will always keep using B2, but its just creating a further divide between elite and the rest of the modes (for example Joust+Obstacle), making the transition in gameplay from title to title quite uncomfortable.

[MuNgLo]

One thing i really like with the new minijump is how it is affected by slopes. Making it harder to use and used correctly going up a slope you can still do a microjump. It adds a bit of flavour and variety to different spots on maps depending on map layout.

But it also will probably puts even more pressure on Elite maps to be built with attacker coming from lower ground. It already had pressure to have maps built that way due to how negatively trilaser mechanics is affected attacking partially covered targets higher then you. We already seen lots of maps that uses this as a key part of its balance.

[caspa]

Thats actually not a new thing. That was how I did about 80% of my minijumps prior to purchasing a new mouse. Bought a new one so I wouldn't be limited by that.

[Hylis]

One thing i really like with the new minijump is how it is affected by slopes. Making it harder to use and used correctly going up a slope you can still do a microjump. It adds a bit of flavour and variety to different spots on maps depending on map layout.

yes indeed, it's the fact that your feet touch the ground in spite of jumping. That was the reason of the binary split in low timing. If we succeed in working in smaller jumps, we may remove this slope effect (which is cool to have asymétric situation, but that would bring again the issues of the micro)

[TriXda]

The Microjump is too usefull to remove it. Everyone can do it, you just have to buy an appropriate mouse. Much people did this and now thy cant use the microjump anymore? This is just unfair und ridiculous. In trackmania you also have to buy a gamepad to drive smoother and get a minimal advantage, thats it. everyone has the same requirements. they just have to get appropriate equipement.

Surely the next step is to force everyone to use 60hz, cause having any sort of advantage is bad right? I mean, I paid a fair amount of money for a 120hz monitor but not everyone has one..

[w1lla]

I double checked, and it does skip intros.

However there's a indeed a difference with before (which was the very reason for the change!):
Before:
1. Intro plays
2. you pressed the key to skip intro,
3. the intro stopped, and the server was informed you were ready
4. you were on the start line waiting for the go
5. the server said "everyone's ready, start the race" and you started racing.
After:
The intro keeps playing during step 4.

Thx for the explanation xbx, and indeed it skips intros.
This morning we did a mx-ko and had to explain to most players that using respawn and give up to skip the intro leads to a give up in rounds which is not really nice in a ko . They just had to wait for the intro to end. When playing in rounds it gives you no time for chatting anymore before a round starts. Can you give us an explanation what the reason is for this change, because its really different from what is was before. Thx in advance!

Greetz,

Seems to happen also in Shootmania so the key is the same. Intro's in TM, SM cant be skipped.

[TORAKI]

repost it here:

let me get this straight : random /casual gamer wich know nothing about the competitive scene complain like little kids about MACROS about a movement wich is used in the 90% of the game mechanics nowdays , def&atk (while all the pros like in lan & competition always used the progressive/microjump, i never seen someboday complain about that) ; they rage about macros in the forum while nobody ever seen them in an esl cup or any lan and you DEV just listen to them and remove the only thing wich made the game more spectacular and more fast based ? this is what happening right? i just wanna ask u something u ever seen in any shootmania lan or in any online cup somebody complaining about macro? seriously ANYBODY EVER SEEN THAT?

The point is NOBODY EVER COMPLAINED ABOUT MACROS in the COMPETITIVE scene wich is the one keeping this game alive and i see bunch and bunch of new players in elite server wich are completely unexperienced but still the first thing they learn is microjumping beacuse it's just so much needed in the actual playstyle of the game.. no offence or racism for those who play melee , storm or anything (joust is a mode where micro is NEEDED too. for instance) but i NEVER. NEVER. NEVER seen anybody on mirc/lan/esl/leetgamerz/clanbase/gameface complain about macros.. so no offence again but who complains about MACRO like kids complaining about cheats is a pure RANDOM/CASUAL gamer.. and u devs have to understand it cause the competitive scene is trying to bring this game at the top , starting from numbers in esl cups and stuff to flying around for lans.. there's people who believe in this project and he's trying to do anything in his possibilities to make shootmania known. and from months and months we keep adapting to new stuffs and seems like we are coming a step closer to you and you keep getting away from us with strange decision

my 2 cents sorry for any english mistake

[GioPrinzy]

dear developers,if you think that,about macro that give an advantage etc.,why dont u put a minimum height of the jump as u already do but,the minimum height must be like a microjump,,,,,in this way the jump is always equal for all players and it doesnt depend by the hardware that u got it is less random

P.S.:sry for my english for any mistakes