More simple game modes / tutorial

[UrinStein]

I think you're assuming that I'm new to the game or to Nadeo in general, which isn't true.

Nah, don't worry, when I was talking about new players I wasn't adressing you, but since you seem to think about what those people would want in SM, I just wanted to make clear what I think the other side would want and also where I see Nadeo's role in this.
Also I am glas I did not forget to make clear that I just do not have a sense for those people's perspective that you are thankfully representing in this discussion.^^

You know, SM is my first Shootergame. I really, really appreciate its simplicity and the fact that everyone is playing with the same weapon, just like in TM, the same car everywhere!
There is this... ehem CUSTOM GAME MODE xD... that is really fascinating me (Speedball), where you do not run around brainless eliminating people with a weapon of your choice.
Especially though I like the fact that MP is not a place of pure competition. It is more about community and creativity and having your space to do things as you like.

As you say, there are some things that have been proven to work very well in Shootergames, such as a gamemode as you are asking for, but I am fearing the day when SM starts cloning other games for the sake of a community that is currently not interested in Shootmania. I have no problem with anyone asking for new weapons, different physics or whatever new stuff, but changing the whole concept of MP?
MP is not just a collection of games and I don't agree with you saying that this concept wich worked beautifully in Trackmania won't work in Shootmania as well. For me it already does. People just have to get used to it.

We should be glad MP is such an ambitious project. Imagine Shootmania being not much mor than a Quake clone with different physics and weapons. Anyone could easily make another Quake clone and take Shootmania on.
EA for example would just put together a team of people capable of recycling old games and they would puke advertisements all over the place. People would never again play SM.
A project like MP on the other side has its own niche in gaming industry and will last for quite some time.


You are right with saying that many things do not work well, like the buddy list or people having perfomance problems and usibility issues and huuuge lack of tutorials and the game not being beginner freindly and so on and so forth...
All those things suck but Maniaplanet itself as an idea is great and that should not be traded for more players. I am sure it will rent in the long term.

I am having problems to get to the point here, probably because of the time, but I will give it a try:

It is great that you think about how more players could be brought to Shootmania and want to help Nadeo with constructive critisism... but
Every demand on Nadeo to have a bigger influence on what is actually being created and/or played is contrary to the concept of Maniaplanet and therefore no option.
That is obviously MY opinion, but I am quite sure that is also how Nadeo thinks of it. Sure there are many, many exceptions, but still it is the leading principle, I think.

Okay, I think I have said everything I can in these three posts. You will probably be glad to read, that I will not have much more to add to that. xD
I wish you a good night sir.^^

[EXtraDonut]

As you say, there are some things that have been proven to work very well in Shootergames, such as a gamemode as you are asking for, but I am fearing the day when SM starts cloning other games for the sake of a community that is currently not interested in Shootmania. I have no problem with anyone asking for new weapons, different physics or whatever new stuff, but changing the whole concept of MP?
MP is not just a collection of games and I don't agree with you saying that this concept wich worked beautifully in Trackmania won't work in Shootmania as well. For me it already does. People just have to get used to it.

Change the whole concept of multiplayer? Are you serious? Adding new titles & content is exactly what Nadeo wants. It would not detract from the current game modes in anyway at all. Variety and community content is what this game is made for but the tools given to use are actually very limited.

Have you used the map editor? No matter how hard you try every map looks so damn similar because of the lack of variety. Game modes? Lack of variety due to the limited options. It's nice & I really enjoy elite, royal, rocket arena and all the other existing game modes but if Nadeo would just add more options to choose from people could get way more creative with their creations.

Your argument is very purist in nature and I'll be honest it's not sitting well with me. Like I've stated many times before I enjoy Nadeo's games but I do not like their lack of attention to the community. Their ideas were ambitious, but they lacked the impact to truly shake up the world of FPS. Great concepts, poor execution. But I guess since this is your first shooter game you wouldn't understand the points I'm making because I'm drawing comparisons to games like Quake & any other twitch shooter in the market. Shootmania (with its shooting/moving mechanics) is already more advanced than most of these games as well as refined for competitive play. It however lacks loads of variety with weapons, map detail, titles & players. At the moment the people who play this game are part of a small niche of gamers willing to play the current game modes. The majority of the players are mainly Elite players. But most of them still play other game modes! Add more players who enjoy different types of gameplay by adding said variety to the game and perhaps with time they will develop interest in Elite & other current game modes as well. Current Elite players will also still stay! I don't see how any of this could hurt the community.

You are arguing that we should just accept Nadeo's inadequacies & just take it and leave it. This game is slowly dying if you can't tell (here in NA) and Nadeo is doing very little to pick up the pieces. Perhaps they are doing good things behind the scenes but how would we know? Nadeo doesn't do a good job of communicating with its player base. What we currently have in SM:S is not enough to sustain it in the current game market. It has to adapt. And no it doesn't have to be Call of Duty, it just needs to add more tools for creative people to make these gamemodes themselves with further ease. As I've said before, information about coding this game is spotty. Also if you didn't know the weapon drops for combo are NOT a block and if anyone wanted to make a gamemode with them they would have no immediate idea on how to add it. They'd have to dig far & deep to find out how to implement it, and that is if it's even possible.

So let me sum this up once again in a very simple list:
-more variety of tools/weapons for the map editor & title creation
-advertising
-fix maniaplanet (because haha it is fucked no matter what you think of it, go play other shooting games & find out why the menu system is such a horrible clusterfuck)
-pull heads out of asses
-communicate with the community directly & frequently

Oh and uh

Every demand on Nadeo to have a bigger influence on what is actually being created and/or played is contrary to the concept of Maniaplanet and therefore no option.

Nadeo is the company, they already have an influence on what is being created and/or played. They will always need to have influence. For as long as they stop updating the game with more content for creative minds to apply to their maps & titles, the game will simply grow stale. Some of the new blocks they added as of late are nice but there really needs to be more variety with how we work with our maps. It's too simple, even in the "advanced" editor.

It seems like they're focusing TOO MUCH on the purity for competitive play. Add more variety and w/e title you want to have competitions for keep it "vanilla" with its mechanics. Elite & every other game mode does NOT have to change with the addition of more variety in shootmania. Nadeo should involve themselves more into the community, because the current reliance on user created content just creates too much of a gap between the developers and the players. It's great, but it needs a standard of quality.

I've gone over every point I've made at least 5 times over. I don't know how I can add onto it more. Whatever Nadeo does in the future, it better make sure this game doesn't die.

[UrinStein]

You haven't gotten any of my points. x.x

YES you are right, it would be nice to have more blocks and more this and more possibilities in the editor and better everything. THAT was NOT what I was denying.

If there is any other mode or variation you can think of, it is your turn to make it happen. Nadeo will be busy with other stuff, wich the community cannot do. For example adding new blocks with new functions, wich you apparently would appreciate.

That is my first of those 3 posts btw.
YES making and creating stuff so we have more possibilities what to do, but NO not making "official servers" and "official" game modes.

I have no problem with anyone asking for new weapons, different physics or whatever new stuff, but changing the whole concept of MP?

I am very sorry for the ambiguity: MP = Maniaplanet (just like SM = Shootmania & TM = Trackamnia are commonly used).
The concept of Nadeo giving us new and better software, but letting us decide what we want to do with it.


You are making good points, especially with the editor, wich really, really could be so much better and has not developed a lot since TM forever,
but that 'official stuff"-thing you mentioned in your first post, is the one I am toally disagreeing with.

Great concepts, poor execution.

It is a bit harsh, but sometimes it is actually true.
Now if you wanted to change the concept you would end up with "no great concepts and still poor execution", wouldn't you?
I hope you understand now, why I am so much dwelling upon that one subject of the concept.

[EXtraDonut]

You haven't gotten any of my points. x.x

YES you are right, it would be nice to have more blocks and more this and more possibilities in the editor and better everything. THAT was NOT what I was denying.

If there is any other mode or variation you can think of, it is your turn to make it happen. Nadeo will be busy with other stuff, wich the community cannot do. For example adding new blocks with new functions, wich you apparently would appreciate.

That is my first of those 3 posts btw.
YES making and creating stuff so we have more possibilities what to do, but NO not making "official servers" and "official" game modes.

I have no problem with anyone asking for new weapons, different physics or whatever new stuff, but changing the whole concept of MP?

I am very sorry for the ambiguity: MP = Maniaplanet (just like SM = Shootmania & TM = Trackamnia are commonly used).
The concept of Nadeo giving us new and better software, but letting us decide what we want to do with it.


You are making good points, especially with the editor, wich really, really could be so much better and has not developed a lot since TM forever,
but that 'official stuff"-thing you mentioned in your first post, is the one I am toally disagreeing with.

Great concepts, poor execution.

It is a bit harsh, but sometimes it is actually true.
Now if you wanted to change the concept you would end up with "no great concepts and still poor execution", wouldn't you?
I hope you understand now, why I am so much dwelling upon that one subject of the concept.

The big issue with ManiaPlanet is the browser and how the titles are organized in tiles. If they could just make one centralized server browser that listed EVERYTHING (and I'm aware the storm tile does this) as well as allow you to search not only for region, but for game type that shit would be amazing. The whole "separate all the titles into little squares on this platform" is useless. It's just needless clutter. I don't see why they can't adapt something similar to what valve does for their multiplayer game server browsers. The in-game server browsers for CS:S, TF2 and any other source or gold source game is what I would consider a perfect server browser. You can search for servers by filtering tags, game modes, map names, server names, player slots, region, etc...

Maniaplanet server browser does only two of those things in the browser portion of the platform and that's searching based on region & server name. On the main menu you can search for game modes with the tiles, but why? All of these options could be integrated into a very simple browser system.

Honestly this is just an assumption, but I don't think Nadeo did their research before attempting to make a shooter. So many basic concepts out there to take from, use and possibly improve upon but haven't been touched by Nadeo at all. Instead they opted for their own way and as we can see, their own way is too weird and cluttered. There is no apparent advantage.

Also the reason I want Nadeo to get involved with creating things for their game is to set a standard of quality & have a steady stream of content to fill the current void we're experiencing. If they were to introduce a new title again like they did with combo, immediately the new title will be recognized. Combo is still played in EU if I'm not mistaken (correct me on this if I'm wrong) and is at least more prominent than some user made titles.