MAPS FOR ESWC

[GabrielM]

Keremz Nadeo had nothing to do with ESWC's choice, this has been written in this thread.
That's a long post, but pretty irrelevant..

Please read before posting .

[Ozon]

k.

I never really cared about the maps, it's just how ridiculous the reactions were. Admit it. You bullied like some little kids.
Also, just because I support positiveness, diversity and new stuff that does not mean I agree with Hylis.
And my problem with kryw? You know excactly what my points are. If some unknown mapper would come up with modified maps you would probably shoot him like already happened with Bas. Also, when his name appears on the top right of the screen everytime a score is shown it makes not-so-insiders think, Kryw built all those maps. Crediting in the intro is just too peanuts. Not that I think Kryws mods are bad, it's jus shattering the morale in all possible directions.

We do not f*ck around btw. The only way to make you happy is just keeping the old maps all the time.. I mean like I bought a game with a map editor but Elite maps stay the same. Too bad I am not part of this community.. free dirt throws at some innocent guys who wanted to make you happy... for free.

Coming back to you Keremz, how does your post help but spread negative energy? Are you depressed? Do you need a new best friend?

EDIT: Making the graphics even better? Sorry, but are you drunk..?... again?

[Kryw]

I tried all I can do, to put the true author name (hexadecimal ect..) but I didn't found how to do that..

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/936299jejeje.jpg

[luxxiz]

opinions are my own and coming from a high tier player

Hello, I'll try to answer the best I can.

Hello luxxiz, and first of all, thank you for a decent post, that indeed diserves an answer.
PapyChampy got really fed up with this thread's negativity and lack of respect, so he is not planning on answering it again. I'll transmit it to him though.

Thanks for taking the time and reply, I appreciate it. And I can really understand why PapyChampy got fed up. Some people...sigh.

About the micro-jump, you said it yourself, it was not intended to have such a tiny-micro-small-unrealistic-cheated jump. What makes it a problem now is that you had acces to that "bug" for a while and now you're frustated to lose it. I think we can agree that if it was always like it is today, we would not probably be talking about it as an issue.
May I remember you people like Talespin or Strenx that said in the first place that the micro jump invention was really bad because it was "too random", "taking out the risk/reward of jumping for sprinting", etc.
Then people complained about macro-users and asked for this minimal jump height.
And now new people complain about having a minimal jump height, of course.

Yes it was not intended but the outcome of it was actually, great I'd say. The metagame turned out to the better. In quake for example. Strafejumping was never intended and it was also a "bug". But look where Quake is today, just because nadeo never planned on it doesn'nt mean it isn't good.
Yes I recall Talespin moaning a bit about it but NA scene was quite far behind. It was not strenx for sure, I would know, I play with him. Neither was it me.

Yes, using macro with it(I don't see the point, it really isn't hard if you practise it), is a cheat. But an idea would be. Why not implent it? Another point you had was the skillgap and I totally understand, you were using the Quake argument. I fully agree. But since it was such a good feature to the game. Isn't it possible to implent it on a seperate key? That way, even "less good players" can master it directly. And at the same time macroproblem is out of the world. Only problem with that though is its no longer considered a skill. But I really think that is ok. Because we've come so far with it I think it doesn't matter anymore if its on a seperate key or doing it manually. Everyone was mastering it anyway so implent it for the people who can't do it. Just an idea.

Yes you are the one talking about laser 1/3 reload on hit being to overpowered for the attacker, but what about the people that love hitting 3 guy in a short window of time, and have the skill of doing it ? 1/2 was apparently overpowered, so it went for 1/3 of the reload.

Yeah true, you got a point, maybe it's just because I haven't given it a serious try but I think(and know from playing it) doing aggressive tactics is A LOT more risky now. It was a skill of a team to call good calls when you push out and go aggressive, I think it will become more campy and we didn't want that right?
Your "counterstrike speedhack, rich people etc" arguement isn't really fitting in my opinon because its not really the same thing. As long as something is available for EVERYONE, it's just matter for mastering things, getting the skill. Some people get motivated as f**k to practise it master it themselves because they saw someone do it. Also mate, we're not "arguing", we're discussing. It's a difference. Anyway moving on! I would like to thank you one more time for taking the time to answer!

About the "Kryw stealing maps" issue. I think it is really nice that someone puts down so much time into trying to help the community but making the maps his own is not fair to any mapper which put down a lot of time on them. Yes I know he did put some intro or whatever saying who the author is but it is not the same thing. Not cool Kryw, not cool.
Putting that aside, the maps do look good. I saw your latest Collided version and I really think that change is good. The pillar at the back there, maybe just put a normal pillar there so you can't hide in the cornor there. A long with your change with the arch. Good job.

Dear Shootmania players,

After a long talk with NADEO we thought it would be an interesting idea to change maps because they told us the current game-style is mainly a form of camping and thuss not spectator-friendly. However, we weren't expecting this much feedback and are a bit surprized about all the complaints we got by email, on Facebook & especially on this forum.

Thank you for listening to the community. It is very much appreciated. About the poll I think ESWC should do it only. Don't include ManiActu(no offence). But it is your tournament so I really want ESWC to be in charge of the poll and promote it good. ESWC has WAY more influence I'd say. I do think you should include the updated maps people are making right now, for example Kryw which have done a great job. The maps are ready, time issue is not a problem. Include them in the poll!


As an conclusion I think it's great to see the community+nadeo+eswc coming together and actually working together. Keep in mind people, leave out the flaming and respect people and you might get your point forwarded!

Kind Regards
C. 'fnatic/luxxiz' Losell.

[GabrielM]

The best way is to save it with the right author account.
Though you can't be sure the author wants to sign a map with modification he did not intend.
That's a tricky situation, the best and clean way would have been to suggest modifications to the author, and not force him to have them on his map.

But in the end those maps are copyrighted to Nadeo, so i guess there is probably no problem doing so. It is more of a moral issue with the author since you know him "personally" i would say. It's up to you !

[GabrielM]

Hey luxxiz, you're welcome.

Quick response :

Your "counterstrike speedhack, rich people etc" arguement isn't really fitting in my opinon because its not really the same thing. As long as something is available for EVERYONE, it's just matter for mastering things, getting the skill. Some people get motivated as f**k to practise it master it themselves because they saw someone do it. Also mate, we're not "arguing", we're discussing. It's a difference. Anyway moving on! I would like to thank you one more time for taking the time to answer!

Actually i was not refering to you especially with the "pros can do .. rich people wants.." but to many post that were saying this, and to many post that were probably going to say this.
About the arguing part well, maybe it's a french common mistake, "Argumenter" means discussing about something with justifications.. I thought arguing was not only about fighting, sorry about that .

Yes I recall Talespin moaning a bit about it but NA scene was quite far behind. It was not strenx for sure, I would know, I play with him. Neither was it me.

Actually i'm pretty sure i remember it being his first impression/reaction when he came to the studio to test the microjump before it was implemented to the game. I do know you are both playing for fnatic that's partly why i quoted him . Hope i did not mistake him with any of the other guys that were also here that day though.

Yes it was not intended but the outcome of it was actually, great I'd say. The metagame turned out to the better. In quake for example. Strafejumping was never intended and it was also a "bug". But look where Quake is today, just because nadeo never planned on it doesn'nt mean it isn't good.

Well quake isn't played by any casual player anymore, its playerbase is pretty small, no one want's to pick it up now because they would got humiliated every time they would try to go on a deathmatch server.
ShootMania is aiming at having a bigger playerbase in 15 years than it already has now, not the contrary.
I understand your ideas about a faster gameplay and the macro part, but if i understand properly you want to fully remove the risk/reward of jumping for running ?

What i would add to this, because i haven't seen any body raising this point, is that nerfing the micro-jump just grows much bigger the importance of the map and the mappers. It was even clearer when we only had normal jump. But when you can't microjump automatically to escape real quick, you can't still use little asperity and verticality of some blocks to use your stamina real quick without jumping. It makes the game more strategic, less mechanic and more micro-intelligent.
I think what's fun to do, and makes a good player good, is finding your way around difficulties, and micro-jump when mastered is just the opposite of difficulty. If you can escape every-time you make a mistake or you are in danger, the game is EASY.

When i tried micro jump the first time i was like "wtf ? it is fun to spam it that hard but it's pure nonsense". I still think the same, and won't probably change my mind only for that simple fact.
Maybe i'm wrong and i just like it because i like the little tricks i found to use it better than others, but that could be the same motivation for anybody discussing about B2/B3.. So is anybody more right than the other hehe ?

In conclusion, because of my taste in game play, how i see the game, and where the game should head now, i sincerely think b3 is a more suited choice. I understand that you think differently and i respect that. I'm just expressing my opinion because i truly understand why those change were made, and it's just boring to see everytime people (not you) just saying "Hylis does not listen to us and he is killing this game" (us meaning something like less then 10 people, though they automatically call themselves "the community").
Supporting it was important, because it's mostly arrogant trolls that we hear the louder on those threads.

As an conclusion I think it's great to see the community+nadeo+eswc coming together and actually working together. Keep in mind people, leave out the flaming and respect people and you might get your point forwarded!

Can not agree more ! Good luck practicing for the ESWC, will be here watching.

Cheers.

gab

[banks334]

I had prepared a huge post for why I think this was a bad choice on NADEO's part... but honestly I think everyone already agrees with what I would have to say. NADEO just needs to realize they are shooting themselves in the foot with this decision.

From what I have read in this thread NADEO said to ESWC that the current map-pool promoted defensive play and was not spectator friendly. NADEO wanted maps in ESWC that were not all "castle-like" texture wise. This is NADEO pushing its own interests and is failing to protect the integrity of the game. They are doing so for the sake of exposure and showcasing useless features of the game. In my opinion, save that for another game-type during a fun competition, not something that is a high profile international event that is supposed to highlight ESPORT.

The funniest part to me is how the maps "bas" made are just as defensive as anything else, and they are not viewer friendly from an overhead perspective. Why would any defender push past the red wall and the recharge pad in ricochet? Why would any defender push past into that huge open area in the middle of Mind Control? These new maps are overly complicated and will only make spectating less interesting.

Spectators don't want to see the attacker jumping around like its obstacle. The positive feedback you see about Shootmania is "damn this game is fast." This game is an FPS and needs to be marketed as such. You wont attract that segment (COD, Counterstrike, quake, unreal and such...) by showcasing fancy looking maps at ESWC. Viewers will be coming to see the top players hit amazing shots on key defensive players... breaking defenses and capping a pole by hitting a clutch shot. THAT is what makes Shootmania attractive. What is NADEO trying to say in the first place by saying the maps are not "spectator friendly?"

This post has already gotten pretty long I will finish by saying I appreciate NADEO's enthusiasm for trying to expand the community, but they seem to be suffering from illusions of grandeur that is clouding their judgment and going against what they originally strove for in this game.

[GabrielM]

NADEO just needs to realize they are shooting themselves in the foot with this decision.

From what I have read in this thread NADEO said to ESWC that the current map-pool promoted defensive play and was not spectator friendly.

You misread, actually ESWC asked the mapmaker from nadeo to do a good selection of maps according to their criteria. They asked him to do it because they knew easily how to reach him.

Your post may reflect your opinion which is interesting, but please read the thread before posting, what you wrote has been said many time in this thread and is now clearly outdated since the debate is closed and ESWC changed their mind to now make a poll opened to everyone in order to chose a new mappack.

Thank you though for your enthousiasm about Shootmania and esport in general, see you at the ESWC .

[Cerovan]

Hi there,

I'm sorry but after checking, ESWCDavid is not affiliated to the ESWC Staff, it was never intended to change the decision about the mappack or the use of the Beta 3 gameplay.

The ESWC wants to follow the evolution of the game and that's why the mappack must follow these evolutions also.

Thank you!

[ESWCSylvain]

Dear players,

Someone called ESWCdavid just wrote yesterday a reply saying that a pool will be organized to choose the map of ESWC official mappack. This is tottaly false and it was written by a fake person as:

• - No David is working at OXENT and for ESWC
  - We haven't change our decision to use the mappack released

Thank you for your understanding.

--
Sylvain MAILLARD
Tournament director OXENT SAS
8, rue du Caire 75002 Paris
GAMERSBAND.com | CYBSUM.com | ESWC.com
smaillard@eswc.com