MAPS FOR ESWC

[TMarc]

The responsible for ESWC :

smaillard@eswc.com

I encourage people to send this nice person an email explaining the deal and to get rid of cake, mindcontrol & riccohet.
Dont forget him to show these forums because that will surely convince him.

He knows this forum already, even if it was because of a bad joke of someone.

[xXSoOnXx]

Rebalance both sides of the game by decreasing the architectural elements helping players to camp excessively during their defensive side

This is a joke ? right ?
Because, with stupids maps like Ricochet, Cake & Mind, we wait in defense.
Like Collided, we will wait at pole
Or Golden Rush too


Only Malevolence, Paladin & CastleCrasher (a little bit) are community maps by good mappers (& players) who defenders doesn't camp at pole.

Guys who making this stupid mappool

[Joader]

...

The idea behind this gif is that you're acting too negatively towards the others users/players and the game. You can be constructive like luxxiz or caspa for example but your behaviour is, for me, not so good. You're too focused on the play at high level and (almost) completely forgetting that there is beginners/not so skilled players on the game. I think it's a mistake to modify the gameplay to please only a part of the community and to not care the other part.
The changes are made to have a greater game on the long-term, it's not by having a skillceiling as big as in Quake for example that ShootMania will be fun and challenging at the same time for the "majority" of the players.

Moreover we know your (i meant you sadzealot) opinion about the B3 (and i would say current gameplay instead) and the mappack so you don't need talk again and again and again about this subject because Hylis is in vacations and that the ESWC will apparently not change their mind for the mappack.

You can recreate a thread in September as a reminder for us if you want, but you don't need to put again on the table this subject because there is no one able to answer about it for the moment.

And i'm kindly ask you to change your tone a bit, i can understand that you can be a little pissed about this but it's not a reason to become insulting towards the others users (including towards Nadeo members) of the forum.

Here we go T_T
Quick reminder:
When this game came out, devs were saying: We want to make a game for core gamers, for true FPS lovers and a really skill-based game.
Now: The game needs to apply for the majority of the people.
Did you think about that maybe it fails because of indecicivness? Casuals (or at least the majority of them) will NEVER play a game like sm, that requires high aiming skill, but at the same time gives no rewards (may it be skins, level ups, etc) and CORE gamers will NEVER play a game which gets more and more directed towards casuals by adding randomness through weird maps and erasing key machanics.

Another thing:
This is the 3rd mappool in 1(!) month, no wonder everyone is pissed

[sadzealot]

The idea behind this gif is that you're acting too negatively towards the others users/players and the game. You can be constructive like luxxiz or caspa for example but your behaviour is, for me, not so good. You're too focused on the play at high level and (almost) completely forgetting that there is beginners/not so skilled players on the game. I think it's a mistake to modify the gameplay to please only a part of the community and to not care the other part.
The changes are made to have a greater game on the long-term, it's not by having a skillceiling as big as in Quake for example that ShootMania will be fun and challenging at the same time for the "majority" of the players.

Moreover we know your (i meant you sadzealot) opinion about the B3 (and i would say current gameplay instead) and the mappack so you don't need talk again and again and again about this subject because Hylis is in vacations and that the ESWC will apparently not change their mind for the mappack.

You can recreate a thread in September as a reminder for us if you want, but you don't need to put again on the table this subject because there is no one able to answer about it for the moment.

And i'm kindly ask you to change your tone a bit, i can understand that you can be a little pissed about this but it's not a reason to become insulting towards the others users (including towards Nadeo members) of the forum.

I've tried Cerovan. For a long time I was being constructive in my criticism. And for a long time I either met a wall of silence or I met what I personally found to be avoidance of the points raised (Which is why I in a post a few days back said that someone had no right to cry about people going off-topic in threads when that's all I experience Nadeo employees did for a while, namely not answering the points raised, but answering anything else around it instead).

There was no point in being constructive. And my tone these days is a big "I don't care"-tone becuase you guys obviously don't listen anymore. You've made up your mind that this is the way you're gonna go and those of us who like the game and the potential it has are angry and frustrated with you guys wasting it. And this is where you fail in your reasoning Cerovan (and Nadeo in general)

You say that I'm focused solely on play at the high level? First of all, I don't play at the high level whatsoever. I'm a mediocre player at best which on a good day can play decently, but overall I'm not very good. However, I've been playing FPS games for almost 20 years now and I do like games with depth, lots to learn and a challenge. And so do most gamers (except those that have been ruined by being handheld and console-games for too long).

The problem with Nadeo thinking now is that having anything skillbased or something that requires practice to learn equals being "too hard for beginners". Since when? And I hear you guys bring up Quake as an example of what you don't want Shootmania to be every time. And you're right, this game has failed already so it will never achieve the success of Quake. In closed beta you could browse servers under Elite and you would easily find 3 full pages of servers on any afternoon. These days you'll be hard pressed to find 2 full pages of servers (if you include matchmaking). That says a lot about the direction of the game.

If you think having a movementsystem that requires you to actually practice to get good at it means that it suddenly won't be fun or interesting to new players then you don't know what you're talking about. If that is the case you should simply remove the stamina-system and add a sprintbutton to the game, because that is surely too difficult for beginner players to overcome, right? It's nothing like other games so a beginner can't learn that right off the bat.

And then there's the part about taking away things that require skill (B2 microjumps, B2 walljumps). Ok, so you've made this casual friendly. Now what is left to keep the high level players in the game? If there's nothing to learn and master and no challenge and nothing to rise towards, why should they keep coming back to the game?

Do you think mastering the mechanics of the game in 1 week will make people stay in the game? I highly doubt it. And Hyllis even said in a post long ago that those who still played on B2 settings were falling behind those that had already moved on to B3. How so?

There is nothing to master in B3 for someone who's been on B2 for a long time. Oh right, except getting used to that fast reload on hits vs the laser. Which several people have stated won't be good for the gameplay of Elite, yet it's being pushed out there and haven't been changed yet.

There's powerwalljumps but they're a big joke. You run into a wall and you do a jump. Then you lose aircontrol for several seconds and you end up where you end up. There's no skill going into those jumps. They can only be done on a certain block.

If you think that having mechanics in the game with depth and something that will take time to master means the game suddenly won't be fun and enjoyable to beginners this game has already failed because your thinking is wrong from the start. If you want to make a game for beginners go make Call of Duty 18. I've posted this interview before and I suggest you all read it, because this stuff matters - http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/13/call- ... interview/

And one last thing: You guys have to get rid of the idea of having the same enviroment for all the modes. Because one of the modes was promised to be a competitive esport title yet you're taking away what requires skill in the game to please "beginners". Maybe you should consider different enviroments for different modes? Because the way I see it having to simplify the "hardcore" mode to please beginners in other modes is just stupid.

Not to mention Elite shouldn't be a mode beginners should enjoy anyway. I got absolutely smashed when I started playing Elite in August 2012. However, I enjoyed the gameplay of it A LOT. In fact, I enjoyed the gameplay so much I stuck with it for months of getting stomped on untill I got a little better. And a little better. And a little better.

And now I can atleast hold my own to a certain degree. And why did I do so? Because I'm a slow learner and constantly learned new things every day. (Ofcourse having to use google and hear from other players about core mechanics of the game wasn't fun and that will never be fun for beginners. You know, stuff like tri-laser, increased reload-speeds on stamina-blocks etc).

And it's having something to reach for that was fun. I still haven't mastered all the walljumps in B2 that I want to master. And I don't want to get too cocky here but I'm among the best walljumpers in B2 there is, and there's still something to learn.

Beginners aren't afraid of having to learn new stuff in a game. If only you guys give them a tutorial and explain the core mechanics so they can learn on their own. Having to use google and find out stuff from other players just to learn something, THAT is discouraging for casuals/beginners.

So please, talk to Hyllis when he's back and get him to understand some of these simple points. And most of all, get him to start listening to those that he calls "haters". I've seen posts from him saying "We want to move forward with people who want the game to succeed" when people have been criticizing the game. Well, that is called ignoring criticism.

People criticize because they like the game and want to see it improved and to succeed. Even I do, because I think it has great potential. But then I see that potential pissed away day after day and actual posts trying to raise points be either ignored and or avoided in replies (I'm talking about before I got all pissed off and rude on your forums).

So you guys can sit there and say what you want, but you should look carefully at what is going on. The dwindling numbers on Elite, the increased criticism from people playing Elite competitively (not talking about me) and not to mention, high level SM Elite players actually moving on and streaming other games (like Firefall for instance).

That alone should worry you A LOT. But it doesn't seem to. It seems like you're perfectly fine with this development. If that is the case then I'm wondering if YOU really want the game to succeed. Maybe Hylis should ignore his own thinking seeing as he doesn't want the game to succeed

Again, apologize for going off-topic but I felt your post (that I didn't bother to check for) warranted a reply.

[Joader]

You can blame sadzealot for his behaviour sometimes but you cant deny that fact that he is just fuckin right in every single little point he mentioned.
Just try and listen a bit to that feedback because most good/top players gave up on trying o improve the game and just stick around for the money.

Back to topic:
A mappool change to this current time would be bad too imo, because many teams practiced those new maps a lot and finding out that this practice was a waste of time would be another bad thing

[viperozza]

cut

After reading this, in my opinion, the whole SHOOTMANIA forum can be closed. sadzealot said everything and in a perfect way. He may be sometimes a bit rude but that's just because he cares about the game and the community.


PLS NADEO, listen to him

[novationx]

cut

After reading this, in my opinion, the whole SHOOTMANIA forum can be closed. sadzealot said everything and in a perfect way. He may be sometimes a bit rude but that's just because he cares about the game and the community.


PLS NADEO, listen to him

Same.

Also Joader... Trust me, teams wouldnt complain if the mappool suddenly changed again. ( to the regular one )

[Alexey85]

[...]I've tried Cerovan. For a long time I was being constructive in my criticism. And for a long time I either met a wall of silence or I met what I personally found to be avoidance of the points raised (Which is why I in a post a few days back said that someone had no right to cry about people going off-topic in threads when that's all I experience Nadeo employees did for a while, namely not answering the points raised, but answering anything else around it instead).

There was no point in being constructive. And my tone these days is a big "I don't care"-tone becuase you guys obviously don't listen anymore. You've made up your mind that this is the way you're gonna go and those of us who like the game and the potential it has are angry and frustrated with you guys wasting it. And this is where you fail in your reasoning Cerovan (and Nadeo in general)[...]

You raised your points on B2 walljumps, with which devs were not agree. And then you went full rampage. You care about the game much, but that doesn't justify any of your posts with direct or indirect insults and swearing. Devs have their own vision about the game and they are not obliged to follow ideas of everyone who says what devs should do or not.

[...]
The problem with Nadeo thinking now is that having anything skillbased or something that requires practice to learn equals being "too hard for beginners".[...]

Shooting is skillbased, stamina usage is skillbased, b3 walljumps are skillbased, they are not as deep as b2, but still requires practice not only to perform but to see more possible routes at maps. Lots of skillbased stuff overall.

[...]
In closed beta you could browse servers under Elite and you would easily find 3 full pages of servers on any afternoon. These days you'll be hard pressed to find 2 full pages of servers (if you include matchmaking). That says a lot about the direction of the game. [...]

I suppose you are talking about the times when there were more players and no walljump and no progressive jump, right? Which kinda negates the whole argument.
Anyway, in the beginning some people were trying the game because it was new, many were expecting big tournaments so they kept practicing. Now people left not necessaritly because they think the game is bad, but they might move where the bigger money are.

[...]
If you think having a movementsystem that requires you to actually practice to get good at it means that it suddenly won't be fun or interesting to new players then you don't know what you're talking about. [...]

I don't think they remove B2 walljumps because of beginners. On one side it is great it has that depth that you show in your videos, on the other hand walljumps too powerful, since they open more routes and allows take more heights which makes attackers OP. B2 walljumps don't work as intended.

[...]
And then there's the part about taking away things that require skill (B2 microjumps, B2 walljumps). Ok, so you've made this casual friendly. Now what is left to keep the high level players in the game? If there's nothing to learn and master and no challenge and nothing to rise towards, why should they keep coming back to the game? [...]

As for walljumps I said above. As for microjump. I don't know for sure if I was at servers where it is removed, but I seen post from dreammyw0w saying it is very small, doens't hurt. Saying about microjumps as "taking away things that require skill" doesn't make sense in this case. Regarding yours "If there's nothing to learn and master" - did your aiming skills reach 100% accuracy, so there is no need to master it anymore? "why should they keep coming back to the game" - for the same reason they were around when there was no progressive jump and walljumps.

[...]
If you think that having mechanics in the game with depth and something that will take time to master means the game suddenly won't be fun and enjoyable to beginners this game has already failed because your thinking is wrong from the start. If you want to make a game for beginners go make Call of Duty 18.[...]

Reason to remove B2 is not because of beginners as far as I remember from posts from Hylis, but because it allows to take too much height.

[...]
You guys have to get rid of the idea of having the same enviroment for all the modes. Because one of the modes was promised to be a competitive esport title yet you're taking away what requires skill in the game to please "beginners". [...]

So when the game didn't have walljump and progressive jump, it was not a competitive esport title, it was a "Call of Duty 18"?

[...]
Beginners aren't afraid of having to learn new stuff in a game. If only you guys give them a tutorial and explain the core mechanics so they can learn on their own. Having to use google and find out stuff from other players just to learn something, THAT is discouraging for casuals/beginners. [...]

I think tips about tri-laser and progressive jump would be nice, everything else can be discovered easily while playing.

[...]
So please, talk to Hyllis when he's back and get him to understand some of these simple points. [...]

Sorry, but there is no new points in here, another post out of tenth of yours about removing B2 walljumps. Only without insults and swearing. Thank you for that.

[...]
So you guys can sit there and say what you want, but you should look carefully at what is going on. The dwindling numbers on Elite, the increased criticism from people playing Elite competitively (not talking about me) and not to mention, high level SM Elite players actually moving on and streaming other games (like Firefall for instance). [...]

People might leave for various reasons. They might try and realise its not their thing. Some good players might leave because of lack of big tournaments and tournaments coming for other games.

[GabrielM]

By the way : indeed they are significatively less people playing those days. It dropped down exactly at the begining of july/end of june, and has been stable since. That's what happen on every summer holidays.
Let's wait for the days around ESWC, should probably be different .

[djhubertus]

I don't think so GabrielM