The worlds First Tournament in Trackmania 2

[eyebo]

i asked a poll at my facebook fanpage (http://www.facebook.com/fbcentral), and currently, 39 people says they will stay with TMNF/Stadium, and 11 will move over to TM2.

That's hardly an unbiased poll. Most of your friends/fans are undoubtedly entrenched TMNF players. If you ran the same poll on United TMX, you'd get drastically different results.

Perhaps I live in a shell, but it saddens and surprises me to see any kind of cynicism or negativity for a game or the promotion surrounding it (including competitions) that Nadeo has been working on for 2+ years. It surely deserves all the promotion it gets, and I hope it gets promoted a lot here in the US. There's tons of room for growth among the American gamers.

[FrostBeule]

i asked a poll at my facebook fanpage (http://www.facebook.com/fbcentral), and currently, 39 people says they will stay with TMNF/Stadium, and 11 will move over to TM2.

That's hardly an unbiased poll. Most of your friends/fans are undoubtedly entrenched TMNF players. If you ran the same poll on United TMX, you'd get drastically different results.

the poll is not supposed to be for United people. it's for people that play TMNF/stadium as an esports game. we already know that for TMUF players, TM2 is the natural next step. this is nothing new.

i admit i probably shouldve made this more clear in the poll. but since i assume most of the people that are fans of me are tmnf/stadium/esports players, it doesn't really matter that much.

[Hylis]

Like Kalle "Frostbeule" Moertlund Videkull said to me before

"time after time you've proven that you are clueless when it comes to define a good esport."

and now he says

"don't you realize that Nations was something special and unique?"

when I did TrackMania Nations ESWC and Forever.

Anyway, I gave the exemple of 1.6 to illustrate that because I was going in the way for Nations that if it keeps its audience in eSport, then it will have sponsors, and that it was not only possible, but that it happened for years with CS. So, it was a comment in favor of Nations.

The difference here, is I think that players can unite to have a better global TrackMania competition environment or start to make "restriction" on which game has the right to be supported by us or not. We have supported a lot Nations, and we have to support our upcoming games as well. It is positive to TrackMania as a whole.

And Olympics have different discipline, it does not have to be all in a Maxicathlon competition. Some people makes competitions on coast only. Maybe that if United competions include all environment it is because more people want it, simply. But in the early days, I remember big competition only on Rallye from people arguing that it was the only one good for it! But they were doing it with fun ^_^

[Knutselmaaster]

And If there is no professional Top, there is no community.

I disagree with that.
I never been into professional top, and neither have most of my teams players (some of them went in that direction after leaving my team) and still i have over 5 years of community fun with TMN and TMNF, with literally hundreds of different people.

of course i think MOST people in the esports community will stay with TMNF. the problem is that if they pump in all this money, it will screw everything up. some people will see that the grass is greener and just move over for that reason. ive said this before, but for a game to be a successful esports game, the most important thing is unity. i agree that people should be able to try out TM2, but why are they holding a competition in it with prize money as an esports game? it doesn't make any sense to me. if TM2 is gonna be an esports game, then let it be that naturally. (tho i don't think it will become that for the reason you said, and for other reasons aswell).

TM² will be another game, and won't replace TMF, at least for a long time to come, as long as the players keep playing and the hosters keep hosting.
There will be about 1 new TM² environment per year, as an addition to the previous, not as a replacement.
The Esports community will find it's way to the "best for esports" all by itself, because it will have the most highly skilled players, whether that is TMNF or one of the TM² environments.

It is not more than logical to promote a new game at a big event, as that is the place where you can reach the most interested people. It would not be very effective to promote a new game at a dancing competition or a cooking seminar would it....

[FrostBeule]

Like Kalle "Frostbeule" Moertlund Videkull said to me before

"time after time you've proven that you are clueless when it comes to define a good esport."

and now he says

"don't you realize that Nations was something special and unique?"

when I did TrackMania Nations ESWC and Forever.

again, i don't know what you are trying to say here. stop talking in riddles.

Anyway, I gave the exemple of 1.6 to illustrate that because I was going in the way for Nations that if it keeps its audience in eSport, then it will have sponsors, and that it was not only possible, but that it happened for years with CS. So, it was a comment in favor of Nations.

The difference here, is I think that players can unite to have a better global TrackMania competition environment or start to make "restriction" on which game has the right to be supported by us or not. We have supported a lot Nations, and we have to support our upcoming games as well. It is positive to TrackMania as a whole.

Of course Nations will live on, because there's nothing like Nations that can compete with it, TM2 included. UNLESS you push in this articifical money into it. because then it won't even matter, people will go for the money and not really care about anything else. (ofc not everyone, the majority wil still stay with Nations unless you completely shut it off or continue to restrict it with freezone to make it completely unplayable). this is what i am against because i think it's really not a good idea. i think you could have promoted your game alot smoother. it doesn't make any sense to me to hold this kind of TM2 tournament with this kind of money and infront of the already established esports community.

It is not more than logical to promote a new game at a big event, as that is the place where you can reach the most interested people. It would not be very effective to promote a new game at a dancing competition or a cooking seminar would it....

it's not about where they promote it really, it's about how they promote it. because they are promoting it in a way that they want it to replace TMNF.

[Korre_elmuro]

Hi all, here I am to join this discussion, but I'll try to be as constructive as possible

First of all, I wanna say that I'm very curious to see TM² Canyon. I'll definitely give it a try, but I suppose that's where it will end for me. It's nice to see that Ubisoft is trying to improve and extend the Trackmania game, but I think Frostbeule is right when he says that there's a difference between the promotion of a new game and the integration of that new game in eSports.

Having TM² at DreamHack is definitely a good thing, but the competition that will be held on it shouldn't be eSports minded (yet). You should definitely keep TMNF/Stadium as main eSports game in Trackmania and start with TM² Canyon as 'discovery/fun' competition.

TMNF/Stadium has built a magnificent eSports racing game palmares, with competitions like WCG, ESWC, AEC, SEC, ESL, EMS, EPS, ... Trying to convert this to TM² is just a bad idea, cuz it won't happen. It will only cost us sponsors, prizes and audience, because new games tend to be more attractive in the beginning. I don't think many TMNF players will go to TM² for competitions (maybe for fun), but with the effort that Ubisoft is putting into it, sponsors might be attracted to the game at the start. But when they see that not many players are up for it, they might bail out and not return to TMNF.

I hope you understand that we're not trying to break down TM² Florent, but we're merely trying to avoid TMNF to be destroyed for no reason. It's a great game, perfectly suited for eSports and it should be kept alive. By the players (what we are trying to do right now), but also by the community and definitely by the creators (which is you!). Don't let one of your babies die silently, just because you made a new one

I hope you get what we're trying to say and that you try to keep it in mind


Cheers,
Korre

[Hylis]

FB

You seem to think that money makes a lot of people play, but I think you are wrong. I already said that I don't think that money can do eSport and I still don't believe it. I know about the painkiller story. Money is probably here just to get more coverage and increase a little the stake for the final, as a real reward for the champion.

Maybe money makes you play, as you describe the situation, but I think it would not be sport if it is the case. Money is a reward, not a temptation. How many people that participate to the EMS, EPS, ESWC, WCG really think they will win money or want it. Apart from you, I rarely see this subject come so many often on the table from all the others, that you describe as "very young people with very low morals.".

[db89]

it's not about where they promote it really, it's about how they promote it. because they are promoting it in a way that they want it to replace TMNF.

Well I'm happy that TMNF will be replaced by TM2 because it's too easy to play without pay. (TMUF is available for a bit of money yet).

[fishmac]

sponsors will go where there is audience.

Yeah, I hope so

By saying that TMNF is perfect, you are making quite a compliment, and I believe that the "Forever" quite stand for it. We have spent so much time, and 800 times more than the Dreamhack cashprize to make this version, I think this version deserves to receive the recognition that we did A LOT for Nations! Now, it would be strange to avoid making any new TrackMania because of this, I hope you agree with me on that.

perhaps , I explained it wrong. I didn't mean It shouldn't called "TM 2", but It should more like TM 1 in some parts
I couldn't play TM 2 until yet, but I'm excited If speedslide,Flow Trick, Ride,trick, Overspeedslides or something else would be possible. I am speed driver and I liked that yuo could be 0.2 faster with a simple trick. I dont think it was you intention for TM 1, but it worked. So something like that,except the curbstonebug( I hope you fixed that)
make Trackmania 2 to a follower of TM 1.

You are finished with TM 2, so my words are a little bit to late, but I hope Trackmania 2 is Trackmania and im looking forward for the release


"I disagree with that.
I never been into professional top, and neither have most of my teams players (some of them went in that direction after leaving my team) and still i have over 5 years of community fun with TMN and TMNF, with literally hundreds of different people."

With Professional I mean driving not the cups big prices ...
For example Tm-Tube has professional Videos as the JWH Teaser.
TM-Exchange has professional Maps, which are driven by many people on cos,NATION ADDICTED, Zero and so on

I think the community started with the coloured Name and end with blockmixing.


Greetz Marcel 'FiSHM4C' Marek,

[FrostBeule]

FB

You seem to think that money makes a lot of people play, but I think you are wrong. I already said that I don't think that money can do eSport and I still don't believe it. I know about the painkiller story. Money is probably here just to get more coverage and increase a little the stake for the final, as a real reward for the champion.

Maybe money makes you play, as you describe the situation, but I think it would not be sport if it is the case. Money is a reward, not a temptation. How many people that participate to the EMS, EPS, ESWC, WCG really think they will win money or want it. Apart from you, I rarely see this subject come so many often on the table from all the others, that you describe as "very young people with very low morals.".

i also don't believe that money can do esports, that's why i don't think TM2 will become an esports game with this strategy of yours im simply saying that if there's money, people will move over and try to win the money that is there temporarily. and that's not good because it creates harm and confusion. i don't play for money really. i play because i love the game and i love to compete. but im also very keen on doing what's right. that is why i don't participate in ESWC for example, where many could say that it would be "easy" money for me. i don't care about money. what i mean with very young people with very low morals is that they haven't realized what's most important in life, and they go for the quick fix without really caring about the consequenses. the older esports gets, and the older people get, the better it will be. you gotta start with yourself though.

it's not about where they promote it really, it's about how they promote it. because they are promoting it in a way that they want it to replace TMNF.

Well I'm happy that TMNF will be replaced by TM2 because it's too easy to play without pay. (TMUF is available for a bit of money yet).

well i assume you are not a TMNF esports player, so it makes sense . but yeah, i do agree that there probably should be a better way to earn money with TMNF. check out http://tm-freezone.org/index.php