Gaming vs. realism, or should weapons hit through fences?

[TMarc]

Those who were able to walljump were soon treated as cheaters, and then people started claiming to make the walljumps more easy.
Then Nadeo did it, and since walljumps are more easy, they are not such an advantage anymore.

No, none of this is true. Walljumps were a new feature added with beta2. People were calling others hackers because they were able to use a function how it was intended? Words fail me. Essentially you are saying that these people were mad because someone else was better than them at something.
The reason that we were given for the walljump change was that there was some sort of bug in the geometry of the walls, which made them act in the way that they did. Despite this geometry bug giving us some deeper possibilities for gameplay (at the same time it didn't raise the barrier for level of entry), it was taken away from us. And now its been nerfed again to these "variable walljumps". And I can tell you, this is was probably the biggest reason that barely anyone plays obstacle anymore.

Thanks for the clarification.
I took the walljump discussion only as another example for issues with very controversial discussions.
Actually players can be very inventive, looking for game breaches, pitfalls, more or less hidden features etc. the developers did not detect during their own tests.
But humans can also be very upset or jealous if others can do something better or use tricks they don't know.
Of course we cannot generalize, but some people take even little things very seriously, sometimes too much.

E.g. some asked for different gravity... How would SM or TM gameply be on the moon or on Mars?
What did Nadeo do? they added jump stations, and recently teleporters. A totally different approach.

Jumppads, teleporters aren't anything new. Certainly not an innovation by nadeo. And they pretty much exist in all arena-FPS games (most would consider SM to fall under this genre/category).

Of course, I only meant that Nadeo took a different solution (teleporters and jumppads instead of changing of the gravity setting) than what was actually asked some by players. However, one solution does not necessarily prevent the other in some future.

Yup. But we still get a lot of (in my opinion) useless stuff every patch. There have always been issues with the hitboxes/netcode, and there still are and probably will always continue to be as long as the efforts of the studio are intent on fixing other things. Like when you agreed me with me, players want consistency and balance. ALL players want that, not just the "pros" (I hate this word when its used in the same sentence as shootmania).

Yeah, it's very strange with the fixes. Often we read "this has a low priority", or "we have it on the todo list, but we don't know when", etc.
And surprisingly sometimes we see fixes of things players totally forgot about, or which players would not consider as useful for the currently more important issues.
As long as we don't have a clear priority display (and not a more or less random looking wishlist, where at the end we do not see what is really top priorities, at least for the active forum users), we can never know what will actually be fixed or implemented soon.
Even if they write "fixed with the next update, thanks!" we often do not know when this update will happen.
But I don't think a more regular "monthly patchday" or a "big update every 4 months" will help to solve all issues faster or better.

No, the discussion is merely to entertain TMarc seeing as he likes to discuss this topic. And like caspa first said, it was only done by TMarc in an attempt to "defend" Nadeo and the game, almost implying "Maybe it was supposed to be like this".

Sadzealot, when will you learn it once for all to avoid such subliminal insults in nearly every of your messages?
This is just useless and childish.
Don't do that anymore, and you will see your posts be considered as much less aggressive and more constructive, because the rest of your post after the quote is almost OK, thanks for that at least.

I did not defend the game nor Nadeo, I only wanted to know the actually intended behavior of the fence, and have it clarified for everyone, especially where some claimed it "has not to be realistic at all".
You could say I tried to defend realism.
The present thread shows well that everyone has a different perception even of that, so why should it not be discussed?

You have a very good suggestion with the tutorials maps, like a training course with certain goals to reach, possibly for both single player and multiplayer usage.
We have also to consider that there are always players who can't even start the game, or have various other (non gameplay related) issues.
With all the different media places, new users actually don't know where to look first for support.
There is too much information across too many places, even the official ones.
Also there should be some cleanup (e.g. remove outdated information from the Wiki, update it) and consolidation regarding look & feel, not only of the game menu.

Why would anyone here want Nadeo to decide about every gameplay decision, or want them to fix things so that they fit their original intention?

But wasn't it exactly what happened with the fence? Because of what caspa and you wrote here: "People wants it".

As caspa says, people want fences as solid walls that you can look through. No matter what Nadeo intended to do, or what else could make sense to explain how those fences could work, the only smart move in such a situation is to give the people the fence that they want and which had become a crucial part of Elite at that point.

Nadeo did the right thing and fixed it. And if they instead said they wanted the fences to be semi-penetrable the would simply make the game bad. So in that case their decision would still be wrong.

I agree, after all the discussion here, a permeable fence would be a big risk of having too much random in the gameplay, and this would be definitely bad.
Simple, straight and clear usage of the fence and also certainly of other blocks makes the game more coherent and this for either level of players.

[Sephis]

You're such a genius, TMarc.