[Maps] Competitonal map discussion

[w1lla]

Hi,

since the past few years of maniaplanet there are lot of discussions about maps and the envolvement about them.

I wonder why the community doesnt accept that they need to do it by themselves.

So many test projects started but all turned down.

I want to give a final chance for this with competition hosts, developers aswell as mappers.

it can be a success formula if we all hang together and dont point a finger at each other.

Yes Nadeo keeps the cool but we can get the best ^^.

I will try to make a project that suits everybody without complaints for players, spectators, hosts and nadeo.

[TMarc]

Absolutely true.
I would guess "since past a few years" = "since the arrival of ShootMania"
Of course not only. Minecraft is probably also part of the cause or excuse

Since nowadays many games allow editing, tons of unfinished or unplayable maps are created, and it gets more and more difficult to find the really good maps among them.
And with the many servers, new players often get lost. Either they are noobs and don't really care, they just go to most crowded servers, or they do constantly server hopping until they find maps easy enough.

While in TrackMania, most tracks are relatively short to play, from a few seconds to rarely a few minutes, and therefore it does not matter to much if they are not so good - the next one will probably be better, or one goes to another server since there are enough, it is not the same with ShootMania. There the players stay usually longer on maps.

E.g. with the Karma voting system, TM admins can easily throw out bad maps from their playlists.
I'm wondering if or why this is still not there for SM, and if this could also help there?

Nevertheless, quite a few people are doing their own objects, and really nice projects, like Raid or RPG.

Let's see what happens in the next months...

[plopp]

I don't mean to insult, but i'm not entirely sure what this topic is about. Would you mind explaining a bit more in depth?

E.g. with the Karma voting system, TM admins can easily throw out bad maps from their playlists.
I'm wondering if or why this is still not there for SM, and if this could also help there?

Map karma does exist in SM.

[w1lla]

there is no karma system for shootmania aka sm-karma. trackmania has mania-karma

The depth of this topic is to find a proper way for maps

[plopp]

there is no karma system for shootmania aka sm-karma. trackmania has mania-karma

There is one in ManiaControl. At least people running ManiaControl can see the karma from other servers with the same controller.

The depth of this topic is to find a proper way for maps

Is it about making maps or a system for selecting good maps for competitions?

[w1lla]

a system.... ^^... made by community accepted by all.

Why do we all differ in needs when there is only one solution...

[TMarc]

simply because of the diversity: different people have different needs, which sometimes require individual solutions.

[novationx]

If a 2year old map like Rust has 7votes on a server with a karma plugin, then what does that say about the funcationality of that plugin? EVerytime you remove the map from your server you lose all votes so what's the use of this plugin...

Before anyone starts coding or doing something let's take the time to ask ourselves what is really needed?

For example:
- Would serious players or top-players like the fact that an entire community ( so also noobs/casuals/unexp. players ) can vote for official and competitive maps?
- Would another community-made karma-system be better than the ones currently out there?
- Would it actually be better if NADEO just fixed this problem? A NADEO-developed tool to help rate/modify/update the community's creations. Think about it
- What about a default installed thingy/tool that lets every player rate every map. You're playing a map somwhere? Np, you can rate it. Always. ( This isnt something the community can make, I guess? )
- Would, with a perfect map-rating system, suddenly everything be fixed? Would the 9 best rated maps automatically make it in the official mappack? If no, who said 'no'? Would the discussions end?

I"ve got a ton of those questions in my head.


Now my opinion:
- A universal map-rating system would automatically be a giant step forward.
- Then even (maybe in a later update) add the functionality to critisize the map and offer feedback directly ingame to the author. This would be another step forward because maps might get updated quicker and in a positive way.
Mappers would get more feedback, thus would get more motivated etc etc. It's an upward spiral.

Basically this would have a positive impact on the quality of maps. Then some good maps may come out of it and they might make it into the mappool. This is for me already a good good reason to develop something like this.
But there will always be someone deciding ( maybe NADEO, maybe a pro player, maybe league/cup admins ) about maps & mappacks and there will always be someone hating. I dont think the best tool in the world could fix that. ( or is that being negative again? )


I wanna end my reply now, cuz its already awefully late. I hope I helped in some way.
Good luck with whatever it may be you are planning.


PS : I think I replied on-topic. Just like Plopp I couldnt really understand what this topic was about.

[wooloo]

@novationx I really like your ideas. You have to know im a noob in Server/Servercontroler-things but i think it should be possible when all votes will on one central server saved. (Sry for that sentence, i know the grammar is horrible ^^)
The feedback-function can be possible with an link to the commentsection of Mania-Exchange when its possible...

[novationx]

So I just played some Matchmaking to see if , indeed, all maps were on the servers now and unfortunately this is not the case. I wrote a perfectly understandable to-do list to help because NADEO uploads the wrong maps a lot, but somehow the wrong maps keep ending up on the MM-servers.


So let me explain and help:
Currently ShootMania has 3 major tournaments. All these tournaments are supported financially by NADEO so (for me) it's normal that those mappacks end up on the MM-servers.
1. ESL GO4SM
2. Paragon <3
3. CPLAY Series

Bad news: These 3 tournaments have 3 different mappacks
Good news: A lot of the same maps are in these 3 mappacks and ESL will start using the CPLAY Series mappack very shortly.

http://league.paragon-esports.com/cup/mappacks ( Paragon mappack )
http://www.esl.eu/eu/shootmania/poll/50478/ ( ESL poll to change to CPLAY Series mappack )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJRyUuEXzlE ( CPLAY Series mappack intro )


So for now we'll have to play these 3 mappacks = 14 Maps
- Old Sun 2K15
- Malevolence 2K15
- GreenValley 2K15
- Versace 2K15
- Rust ( Wabbit's version )
- Spitfire
- Valley Of The Damned
- IronFist ( Wabbit's version )
- Interupt'O ( Day Version )
- Breach
- Numb
- Papercut
- Valiant
- Paladin 2K13


For NADEO to do:
- remove old sun
- remove versace
- remove Reign ( this map is in 0 official mappacks and is not played in cups )
+ add old sun 2K15
+ add versace 2K15
*Edit title to : "ESL/PARAGON/CPLAY Series"
CPLAY is in caps.


Current maps on MM



About the Invote maps:
I personally do not want them on the MM-servers. There never have been test-maps on the server and after playing some MM I already saw some people complaining. I dont hate the idea either.
But imo 14maps is already a lot ( explained above ) and adding even more is a bit too much.


So if you(NADEO) do decide to support these 3 tournaments, then please use the correct maps on your MM-servers. Then in the beginning of February ( when ESL changes mappack ) you will have to remove some more maps (papercut & breach) and then we'll end up with 12 official maps.
Thank you very much.


PS : the current version of versace you are using is the oldest of the oldest & I have no idea where you found it. It's in 0 cups.