@novationx: if you already dealt with the admin to change the maps, do you think this would be doable? It would make sense as there would be one central place where the ESL mappack is defined and be clearer for everybody to understand, including teams wanting to setup servers using the mappack provided by esl, wouldn't it?Cerovan wrote:ask the ESL to modify the mappool section of the Go4 rules or wait the end of the Go4.
[Maps] EU Elite Gold Lobby
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Re: [Maps] Competitonal map discussion
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Re: [Maps] Competitonal map discussion
Well I'm working atm so I cant help right now. I'm reporting here ( just as everything else I do ) in my free time.
Be happy I reported it and I'm sure you can contact ESL yourself. In the end I'm sure it will get fixed.
I can only contact him after work & then another day will have passed again before you fixed it. Might as well just upload the correct version, right now.
Be happy I reported it and I'm sure you can contact ESL yourself. In the end I'm sure it will get fixed.
I can only contact him after work & then another day will have passed again before you fixed it. Might as well just upload the correct version, right now.
The neverending waiting game has to stop.
Re: [Maps] Competitonal map discussion
This discussion is going in many directions. Let's clarify this for a second. There are two points here:
1) Updating the mappack of the Nadeo lobbies.
2) Discussion about the competitive mappacks, and that's the main point of the topic (cf 1st post).
For point 1), yes we will update it, but that's a detail.
Point 2) is more important and lots of questions remains unanswered.
The ESL mappack is a good example: some maps were wrong, so you (as a member of the community) dealt with the admin to update it, which is obivously a great thing since you're more competent than us for such discussions ; it doesn't prevent confusion though, as we are seeing here, since there's no place were it's clearly written what's the ESL mappack (it says one thing here, a different thing when you download it from the ESL website, and so on).
That confusion doesn't help in organizing the choosing of maps and mappacks on lobbies and servers. So the question remains: how to organize the mappacks votes, discussions and updates, taking all actors and contraints into considerations?
One can argue "the ESL admin just have to update its page". One can argue "nadeo just have to update their lobby". One can argue "that server hoster just have to update their server". But it doesn't make for a robust solution. One can also argue "Nadeo just have to do everything themselves", but then again, that's not a robust long-term solution for various reasons which have already been discussed ; and it also doesn't mean we will never do nothing about this either. But right now, we do have other priorities.
So let's be constructive, and think about various solutions (and by let's I don't mean only you dreamy, but everyone involved with their own constraints).
For instance: what about a github repo with maps/matchsettings? so that you have:
- Commit history
- Releases and changelogs and zips
- Pull requests with discussion
- etc.
I'm sure there are tons of other ways.
Are we on the same page?
EDIT: I said "think about various solutions" but I should have said: it's cool to think about solutions, but it's even better to think about "use cases" and constraints first, and everything together will lead to solutions ; to give a little bit of food for thought, cf this: https://secure.phabricator.com/book/pha ... _requests/
1) Updating the mappack of the Nadeo lobbies.
2) Discussion about the competitive mappacks, and that's the main point of the topic (cf 1st post).
For point 1), yes we will update it, but that's a detail.
Point 2) is more important and lots of questions remains unanswered.
The ESL mappack is a good example: some maps were wrong, so you (as a member of the community) dealt with the admin to update it, which is obivously a great thing since you're more competent than us for such discussions ; it doesn't prevent confusion though, as we are seeing here, since there's no place were it's clearly written what's the ESL mappack (it says one thing here, a different thing when you download it from the ESL website, and so on).
That confusion doesn't help in organizing the choosing of maps and mappacks on lobbies and servers. So the question remains: how to organize the mappacks votes, discussions and updates, taking all actors and contraints into considerations?
One can argue "the ESL admin just have to update its page". One can argue "nadeo just have to update their lobby". One can argue "that server hoster just have to update their server". But it doesn't make for a robust solution. One can also argue "Nadeo just have to do everything themselves", but then again, that's not a robust long-term solution for various reasons which have already been discussed ; and it also doesn't mean we will never do nothing about this either. But right now, we do have other priorities.
So let's be constructive, and think about various solutions (and by let's I don't mean only you dreamy, but everyone involved with their own constraints).
For instance: what about a github repo with maps/matchsettings? so that you have:
- Commit history
- Releases and changelogs and zips
- Pull requests with discussion
- etc.
I'm sure there are tons of other ways.
Are we on the same page?
EDIT: I said "think about various solutions" but I should have said: it's cool to think about solutions, but it's even better to think about "use cases" and constraints first, and everything together will lead to solutions ; to give a little bit of food for thought, cf this: https://secure.phabricator.com/book/pha ... _requests/
Please do not PM for support. Instead, create a thread so that everyone can contribute or benefit from the answer!
Re: [Maps] Competitonal map discussion
Now Old Sun is missing.Do you understand our frustration? How hard can it be to upload the correct maps.
Everytime some mistakes happen when updating the MM-servers. So could you please be extra careful in the future and maybe doublecheck to avoid extra rage?
Tyvm
The neverending waiting game has to stop.
Re: [Maps] Competitonal map discussion
Are we on the same page on point 2?
My opinion is that point 2 partly explains point 1. Do we agree?
My opinion is that point 2 partly explains point 1. Do we agree?
Please do not PM for support. Instead, create a thread so that everyone can contribute or benefit from the answer!
Re: [Maps] Competitonal map discussion
I dont agree if somebody gave you a full 100% explanation about how it should be ( that somebody was me. )gouxim wrote:My opinion is that point 2 partly explains point 1. Do we agree?
I do not have any knowledge about github nor do I have any coding skills. I made a very long post in the beginning about what could be done to help and that itself is my help.
For now I just wanna play the maps that are in the mappacks ( and they were on the MM-server forever until you removed them. )
Yes, ESL should update their page, so contact them.
Yes, NADEO cant know everything about the mappacks, so investigate before you upload.
Yes, mistakes do happen, so try to avoid them.
Yes, A proper system for this map-issue should be developed, so create one or help the community create one.
But,
I'm talking about MM and how you keep on making mistakes. Ive posted this here & in the other thread, but you keep splitting topics & giving them other titles. So its not my fault that this is off-topic.
and Point#1 isnt a detail. Its the foundation of the game : Let us play the official maps. How can this not be a priority and why do you make it sound like we are asking soooo much? Just a simple update shouldnt be a problem, huh?
I just wanna play a game.
Last edited by novationx on 21 Jan 2015, 22:01, edited 2 times in total.
The neverending waiting game has to stop.
Re: [Maps] Competitonal map discussion
Point 2 is an important question, but right now, it would be really great to fix point 1. So please do it as soon as possible
About Point 2
Nadeo can't manage mappool, or at least they've no time for it or whatever. So there aren't many other solutions.
Community votes have been criticized because there are lots of people in the community that aren't playing cups.
In my opinion, paragon did a step forward with their map rotation system and their mappool is great (even if it may get better imo). CPLAY is trying a slightly different mappool with another way to update it. Both mappools are great and are accepted by the community so just let CPLAY and Paragon do their mappools as they want, and if a new league opens, the admins would simply have to create their own mappool or take an already existing one.
(I'm not speaking about ESL as they're going to copy CPLAY )
Which mappool should be on matchmaking ?
Simply the most played one(s). At the moment they are 2 mappools (i'm not considering esl as it's imo outdated) so it's not hard to set the both mappools on mm. If someday more cups opens, than ignore small cups (those will probably copy the big cups mappool eitherway) and just upload these mappools.
And to get these mappools, just take a second and contact the differtent league admins, so you'll get their official mappool and no mistake will be done again
About the github repo suggestion :
It might be great to have such a place to find mappools etc, but who would administrate it ? League admins have there own league page where you can download their mappool, and again i don't think it's nadeo's job simply because they're not involved enough imo. So we would have to find a volunteer to manage such a page ...
Maybe another solution would be the see nadeo much more involved into the competitive community. They're already involved into the community overall but sometimes i've the feeling nadeo doesn't know how to handle and how to communicate with this competitive community, but i guess this is another debate
About Point 2
Nadeo can't manage mappool, or at least they've no time for it or whatever. So there aren't many other solutions.
Community votes have been criticized because there are lots of people in the community that aren't playing cups.
In my opinion, paragon did a step forward with their map rotation system and their mappool is great (even if it may get better imo). CPLAY is trying a slightly different mappool with another way to update it. Both mappools are great and are accepted by the community so just let CPLAY and Paragon do their mappools as they want, and if a new league opens, the admins would simply have to create their own mappool or take an already existing one.
(I'm not speaking about ESL as they're going to copy CPLAY
)Which mappool should be on matchmaking ?
Simply the most played one(s). At the moment they are 2 mappools (i'm not considering esl as it's imo outdated) so it's not hard to set the both mappools on mm. If someday more cups opens, than ignore small cups (those will probably copy the big cups mappool eitherway) and just upload these mappools.
And to get these mappools, just take a second and contact the differtent league admins, so you'll get their official mappool and no mistake will be done again
About the github repo suggestion :
It might be great to have such a place to find mappools etc, but who would administrate it ? League admins have there own league page where you can download their mappool, and again i don't think it's nadeo's job simply because they're not involved enough imo. So we would have to find a volunteer to manage such a page ...
Maybe another solution would be the see nadeo much more involved into the competitive community. They're already involved into the community overall but sometimes i've the feeling nadeo doesn't know how to handle and how to communicate with this competitive community, but i guess this is another debate
just +1and Point#1 isnt a detail. Its the foundation of the game : Let us play the official maps. How can this not be a priority and why do you make it sound like we are asking soooo much? Just a simple update shouldnt be a problem, huh?
Re: [Maps] Competitonal map discussion
It's hard because a Nadeo employee actually has to do something outside of his comfort zonekremsy wrote:I don't understand why it sooooo hard to just follow this post:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=30179#p237633
than EVERYONE (really EVERYONE) is happy!
I mean, just look at the number of posts where they're telling Novationx how he "doesn't get what they are doing" when he clearly gets it and he's just asking them to upload correct maps. HE EVEN GIVES THEM THE LINKS! This whole ordeal would've been over in 20 seconds if they had taken his post seriously and done it.
Instead they are posting over and over again how he just has to get it when they are the ones who don't get it by not listening to their customers.
It's actually gotten funny as heck reading the incompetence sometimes.
And yes, this thread shows incompetence from your part Nadeo.
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