Gameplay discussion

[Andi1996]

I just think we have to play it on our own over a long time to say definitely how the gameplay is. To describe it is of course a good idea (and helps me a lot to imagine), but before we can't try it, it's senseless to say whether it's bad or good, if you know what I mean...
But anyway, I really love air-brake...

[rocc]

Hylis, you have to be aware of how air controle is important to this game!
For esports and progamers: the physics have to be 100% controllable and predictable, especially driving highspeed.
I just give you two examples from the DHS Tournament:
Click Do you see how the 2nd drop is affected by the noexistence of aircontrole?

Click me This jump ends in a complete crash.
How annoying, compared to the fact that he left the road in almost perfect straightness!

Some people where arguing that the players have to practice to be able to controle their cars perfectly. C'mon, they are pros and i dont think they have to practice alot to get their car straight enough:)

Edit: In my opinion, air controle is the key element in order to adjust the discrepancy between a very realistic physic engine and an unrealistic track. When air controle is not available anymore, or maybe in an moderated form, drivers are not able to overcome this discrepancy. So who has to make a comfortable, predictable and controllable way of driving? The map builders, building less spectacular tracks, less "unrealistic" tracks. That would be a huge restriction of their creativity and a loss of the essence, of the spirit of TM.

[eyebo]

Thanks for the explanation Hylis.

[haenry]

rocc, you forgot something. These players are pros in TM1, not in TM2
To control it well, you have to practice it more. That's mostly all. You cannot say, that the air-control is bad, only because some TM1 players are doing it wrong

[rocc]

Some people where arguing that the players have to practice to be able to controle their cars perfectly. C'mon, they are pros and i dont think they have to practice alot to get their car straight enough:)

heanry, did you read that? Driving TM is driving TM. No matter if it's TMU oder TM2C. When you are a professional player, you are not just good at playing one game. Skills are not related to a specific game. Look how all the WC3 pros changed to SCII and OWND both games like hell. Did you watch my examples on YT? These happenings are not affected by a lack of skill!

[haenry]

ofc. I read this!
But they are not instantly pros in the new games. They need some time to get along with the new game and this time they just didn't have at dreamhack. The need at least around 2 weeks or so. not some days at dreamhack.
You can see this at the amount of fails they are doing at the easier parts
Also TM2 canyon is more different to the other environments, so they have to learn more than one new thing. You cannot compare it really to WC3 and SC2. I know what happened there

[wiidesire-2]

Some people where arguing that the players have to practice to be able to controle their cars perfectly. C'mon, they are pros and i dont think they have to practice alot to get their car straight enough:)

heanry, did you read that? Driving TM is driving TM. No matter if it's TMU oder TM2C. When you are a professional player, you are not just good at playing one game. Skills are not related to a specific game. Look how all the WC3 pros changed to SCII and OWND both games like hell. Did you watch my examples on YT? These happenings are not affected by a lack of skill!

that is absolutely wrong rocc

new game= new physics= practice to be pro

when you are good at some kind of games, then you are good at other games too , but you are not pro with the first day

you need to practice a lot to see how you can jump perfectly with the new physics. I mean you can see before he jumped @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9fmOjVdD8A#t=0m9s that he turned a little bit right before the jump, that's why he crashed.

If you don't turn right before the jump and you go straight = no crash, also in my opinion it's possible to break in the air what I have seen. So you need practice to make perfect jumps and really nobody can say anything against this.

[tcq]

Edit: In my opinion, air controle is the key element in order to adjust the discrepancy between a very realistic physic engine and an unrealistic track. When air controle is not available anymore, or maybe in an moderated form, drivers are not able to overcome this discrepancy. So who has to make a comfortable, predictable and controllable way of driving? The map builders, building less spectacular tracks, less "unrealistic" tracks. That would be a huge restriction of their creativity and a loss of the essence, of the spirit of TM.

Exactly this brings creativity to a new level. To build a spectacular and driveable map, you need to know what you are doing. But nevertheless, do you really think that the nadeo hasn't thought about this? If this kind of limited air control works, then it works. If not, it will probably be adjusted.
And after the huge amount of different bugs in the previous games, i think they gonna try to make the experience better now. And as breach said, canyon is pretty fast and completely bugfree, after what he has seen at DHS.

[Trackmaniack]

Rocc...you are a very vocal member of the forums, and everyone appreciates your input, me included. However, I must say that you're starting to sound a bit like a broken record--including arguing with Hylis about the system -he- designed. Have you watched the two trailers? MASSIVE jumps in both. And no fewer than a dozen cars landing each. So, this system works, it's not completely bolloxed. It'll just be something you'll have to get used to. Even Zooz, the #1 TMU player in the WORLD (or was, at least recently), will have to get re-used to the physics system of TM2. Sure, because he's a pro, he'll catch on faster than you or me, but NOBODY is going to be perfect at this game within the first day. That's simply not possible.

[rocc]

I just wanted to make a point there. I tried to show how I see the loss of air control and I discussed this topic with some of the best players of TMU. Thus, I wanted to show how difficult the balance of a game being realistic and being esports compatible. I'm not megalomanic, I appreciate Hylis opinion and the work of Nadeo, but he said, that he and his team wants and needs input from the community. I tried to give an input, maybe I sharpened my argument too much, but I never called something into question.
Did you recognize my smiley?

Hylis, you have to be aware of how air controle is important to this game!

Edit: BTW: I never said, that pros are immediatly perfect drivers in a very similar game. I wrote, that I'm convienced, that hakkiJunior is pro enough to have his car leaving the pavement in perfect straightness... In an interview he said:

"There are no Air Control! This is silly, because expanding Nadeo tracks with big jumps and there is no possibility to influence the movement of vehicles in the air? What is this?"