Custom items/blocks path and size needs a fix

[maxi031]

Is there one folder for all items that can be embedded or is it one folder for each environment?

Folder for all items is: Mania docs/Items, you put all your items there.
Folder hierarchy based on environments existed before, but now it is not needed anymore.

I think you only need to worry about folder level of the item.
So if file was 2 levels bellow Items folder when you got it, you will also have to put it 2 levels bellow Items folder.

If item is embeddable or not depends on its size and texture it uses.
When you try to save the map editor will give you message if there is problem with item embedding(just make sure you turn on embed option before you try to save the map).

[jui]

Everything inside /Items shows up when its compatible with the current Envi. You do not need these additional folders (Valley, Common ...) its just for scheme.

Thats also the problem here as angry_duck already pointed out.
Lets say Wratih makes a map and his not embedded items are in /Items/Valley/test and gives the map to me and i have the same items but in /Items/test then i can not open the map because the path is different. But we both can use the items in the editor!

Thats also the reason why i think its better to distribute items as Pack.Gbx because then these path problems do not exist!

Item authors should always build their Items for common use if possible

Its not possible to make embeddedable items common because you have to specify the envi to use Envi textures. Embeddedable items only can use textures from one envi. Why because lets say i only have Stadium installed and not Valley the textures are simply not on my hard disk.

Common Items only work in Titlepacks or when you have the Items installed in the same folder.

Tbh just pack your items in Pack.Gbx and all these Problem do not exist!

[xrayjay]

Folders make sense in my opinion, just to avoid a chaos look-a-like

>> Stadium
- contains all embeddable stadium items

>> Storm
- contains all embeddable storm items

>> Canyon
- contains all embeddable canyon items

>> Valley
- contains all embeddable valley items

>> Common
- contains everything else (only self made textures)


If everything is only in one folder, it´s may easier to place for newbies but imo it´s a bit of a chaos. And additional the folders are a great choice for doing different levels to show items in the editor, so if there are no folders, you got a really long list and hard to find some items.
So folders should stay as they are (for item levels, may not for envi?), but it could be handled a lot better by the game (this folder stuff we are talking here about could be handled by the game a bit different)
As i´ve written in my first post here in this thread, an item could be identified by an checksum (md5 should work here, no high-sec is needed here, just an unique id for each item), so that it could be identified and assigned automatically if the item is in one of the supposed folders.
This needs some update work in the game, may in the future there is a better way to implement things easier.

Jui´s idea is good but will it be possible with packed items to embed one piece of this pack or just the whole pack?

And additional of that, the "experimental" feature for item embedding could be explained a bit more that more people uses this feature (and increase the size limit also), may someone revise the doc?
> http://doc.maniaplanet.com/creation/gen ... locks.html
This is good but imo not complete, should be revised

[jui]

Jui´s idea is good but will it be possible with packed items to embed one piece of this pack or just the whole pack?

Yes its possible. Example http://tm.mania-exchange.com/tracks/801 ... s-de-nadeo this map uses only Checkpoint.Item.Gbx but Checkpoint.Item.Gbx is available only in a Pack.Gbx with 3 more Items.
But since the map only uses one Item in the Pack.Gbx only this one got embedded.

Also for the game the items in a Pack.Gbx are still in the /items folder where the got packed from.
Pack.Gbx is kinda like a zip which gets unpacked on the start of the game to a folder which is stored in the Pack.
Basically every item still shows up (for the game) in /Items/test/item1.Gbx /items/test/item2.Gbx as if the where not in a Pack.Gbx

Thats why its also no problem to integrate single items located in a Pack.Gbx into a titlepack. Because you do not integrate the Pack.Gbx but the single (unpacked) Items.

[Demented]

Thank you to those who helped clarify the folder structure for me, but really it kind of made me just want to stop using custom objects (and some people have made some cool objects). Seems many of the tracks I've made using custom stuff have stopped working at some point with the exception of the default Valley objects and I don't want to spend my time figuring out why or where things are or should be. This should be simplified weather it's one folder for all items or one folder for each environment's items, but it needs to be more clear. Also, Tracks that won't load because the items are missing or textures are missing should have the option of loading without those items to at least allow the user to rebuild it in another way.

[xrayjay]

Yes its possible.

nice, will try that with my next item upload

It works like a "normal" pack creation f.e. for a skin?
Packs>create new>add content> choose the item files (folder) >generate

?


And for general, may we (and nadeo of course^^) have to think about if it´s not possible to increase the embed size up to ~2mb (or something around that).

I know the discussion about online playing and big maps which have to be downloaded at a map change (and peoples with a slow connection) but may at this stage the server software have to be modified (just an idea).

What if the maps are downloaded in the background during the race (and not at the map change) ? The map list is known by the server and the next 2 (or more) maps can be downloaded during the race in the background and added to the cache.
If you look at other games, there are a lot more data which goes in the background, so why not here at mp?

Thank you to those who helped clarify the folder structure for me, but really it kind of made me just want to stop using custom objects (and some people have made some cool objects). Seems many of the tracks I've made using custom stuff have stopped working at some point with the exception of the default Valley objects and I don't want to spend my time figuring out why or where things are or should be. This should be simplified weather it's one folder for all items or one folder for each environment's items, but it needs to be more clear. Also, Tracks that won't load because the items are missing or textures are missing should have the option of loading without those items to at least allow the user to rebuild it in another way.

If you use the embed function all is good. It´s recommended to use it, otherwise it´s a gamble that the map works

[jui]

It works like a "normal" pack creation f.e. for a skin?

Basicly yes. You only have to add the Item.Gbx manually. Mesh.Gbx and Shape.Gbx get included automatically.
The resulting Pack.Gbx goes in Maniaplanet/Packs not in Maniaplanet/Items!

[xrayjay]

thx
.gbx done (and updated my last upload, now with 4 blocks included)
> http://www.maniapark.com/ressource.php?id=2496

[Demented]

If you use the embed function all is good. It´s recommended to use it, otherwise it´s a gamble that the map works

That's what I thought.
I just made a map and used One custom object: (a finish line, made by you, from "Rallye props", which says "This is a common object, what means that you can use it in every environment". (Works great by the way) but, when I try to save the map with embedded items it tells me "There are no embeddable items on this map or something to that effect. Now, I do see that this pack doesn't have the "Embed" logo with it so I assume it can't be used that way, but that's kind of my point. Not everyone creates content as well made or structured as you do and there are so many different ways to create and add content that it should be refined down to one set of rules for everything (items related).

[xrayjay]

You can only embed objects which are using ingame textures (guess something like that is mentioned in the menu when you activate the embedding function).

Objects with self created textures only works with title packs or if the user got the item downloaded and put it in the right folder (than it works in single player), so that´s why i try to use ingame textures only for now. My older objects uses many self created textures, not that handy for public use

So you can embed objects which uses ingame textures, thats why i tagged my newer objects with this embed icon that it´s visible that you can embed this stuff