[ALL?] Missing camera mode (mp/tmn num1)

[i7mean]

Why did I said some bad words though ?
Because before that we complained about something (but in a polite way ect...), and we have no answer from Nadeo (except a locked topic), and when we have answer from other people, it's "leave if you don't like". Well, hm? Not very constructive as well? Aren't we here to make suggestions to make TMTurbo a better game? Are you gonna improve the game suggesting leaving if they don't like?
That reminds me the "lagoon loop" topic. They are very bad, but instead of improving them to make the game better (not easier, better! Yes it's different! a hard game can be good, an easy game can be bad), some people say "TM is not for you, leave the game". OK, so let TM descend the downhill, until there are only 1 000 players, but they will really like it.

And I avoided to talk about the fact we paid 40€ the game, without refund possibility. That's the biggest point. (well I just talked about it, so didn't avoided in fact)

[edk]

If you're okay playing with cam2 then it's not fair to come here and say, "I'm okay with cam2 therefore everyone should be okay with cam2". That's like saying because you're not colorblind that noone needs a colorblind mode. And while that's not a perfect analogy, the point stands. It's just a terribly ridiculous argument to make and almost doesn't deserve a response.

Many of us have played with cam1 from the start of the game. That could be from United days for some, or before, or for 4+ years playing ManiaPlanet titles. I mean, I didn't even buy Turbo because it lacks this single feature. I don't mind the physics changes, or the lack of leaderboards or multiplayer features. I've always enjoyed the campaigns and a new environment? Well, sign me up! Hell, I was even invited to closed beta (which had cam1 included) for Trackmaster medals which should tell you how much I play and how much interest I have in this series. Yet I didn't even buy the game. Because cam1 is a necessity to me. Cam2 is like having the bumper of the car jammed in my face, obscuring the view of the track. I need cam1 to even remotely enjoy this game. It's disappointing.

[TMarc]

Good points, edk.

You at least had the chance to make a choice, to not purchase Turbo because of that,
and others did not have the choice. This is understood and accepted.

But the same you are telling about players used to "camera 1" is also valid for many other players who are used to play only with "camera 2" or "camera 3" or prefer something totally different.
Only because some players are only complaining about the missing "camera 1", this does not mean that all the rest of the players are also missing it the same way.

There are apparently too many irrational things which hinder a fair criticism and a fair opinion.
And this is exactly why the developpers chose more and more to shut up.
Any word from them would be dissected and turned through the meat chopper.

[crannyman]

Only because some players are only complaining about the missing "camera 1", this does not mean that all the rest of the players are also missing it the same way.

Any word from them would be dissected and turned through the meat chopper.

some players? really? I think A LOT!

the only word from them we would turn trough the meat chopper would be "We don't intend to bring Cam1 back".
Well but if they say NOTHING it also makes us angry. they really need to clear things up!

[TMarc]

some players? really? I think A LOT!

How many? Even a lot does not mean "everyone". Don't forget that please

the only word from them we would turn trough the meat chopper would be "We don't intend to bring Cam1 back".
Well but if they say NOTHING it also makes us angry.

Absolutely right. But please don't cry

they really need to clear things up!

But they did actually! Here is the explanation Turbo Target
That's all I can tell for an "official statement".

[paul13]

they really need to clear things up!

But they did actually! Here is the explanation Turbo Target
That's all I can tell for an "official statement".

That is not really an explanation though. The English is a bit shaky, but if I understand him correctly then what Hylis is saying is that it would be unfair to reinstate cam1 for the PC version only, because it would create a difference between the versions and make switching from the PC version of TMT to the PS4 version harder.

To me, that's entirely missing the point. If you (as developer) are going to push out such an update, of course you are going to make it available on all platforms. I mean, unless there is a reason that makes it impossible to do so, why wouldn't you?

I thought about this on and off since I bought the game, and I just can't think of such a reason. If there were a good reason to exclude cam1, then I would be happy to accept it. But as it stands, this just comes across as stubbornness on Nadeo's part.

[i7mean]

TMarc you said (to reverse edk argument) that's it's not because people miss cam1 than everybody would miss it.
But you're missing something very important --> choice. edk said removing cam1 decreases the number of choice. While re-adding it increases the choice.
"Mieux vaut trop que pas assez". So yes, not everybody miss cam1, but you really can't reverse the argument and that's a big mistake. Because cam2 players will lose nothing, and cam1 players would be happy. Right now, cam2 players are okay but cam1 cannot play the game. In my opinion you were wrong here.

[TMarc]

That is not really an explanation though. The English is a bit shaky, but if I understand him correctly then what Hylis is saying is that it would be unfair to reinstate cam1 for the PC version only, because it would create a difference between the versions and make switching from the PC version of TMT to the PS4 version harder.

To me, that's entirely missing the point. If you (as developer) are going to push out such an update, of course you are going to make it available on all platforms. I mean, unless there is a reason that makes it impossible to do so, why wouldn't you?

I thought about this on and off since I bought the game, and I just can't think of such a reason. If there were a good reason to exclude cam1, then I would be happy to accept it. But as it stands, this just comes across as stubbornness on Nadeo's part.

... or even ignorance, if it appears that a significant number of players have mentionend it already during the beta, we can name it frankly, I guess.

i7mean, there are good and bad arguments on both sides.
We could also argue why they kept "camera 3" and did not add a camera from the driver's head position, this would perhaps have been a good compromise. But it's too late.
But why tell I'm wrong only because I do not actively support your request here?
Actually, I personally would prefer a camera which is between "camera 1" and "camera 2".
And now? Does this prevent me from playing? It doesn't.
I try to manage with the existing, and from practical point of view, the "choice" to have only 2 cameras on the same button is not to bad.
If they would add an option in the menu to have the preferred camera perspective as default, and the bumper view as alternative, this would perhaps work and do not spoil too much the controller settings part.

I could reply to you that you are only just to stubborn to not accept Nadeos decision, and that you are to stubborn to not try and give "camera 1" a chance, but I don't.
You can do whatever you want with the game, that's perfectly fine.

I'm only saying that after reading and understanding Hylis explanation, there won't be any improvements of Turbo, this is almost sure, and therefore that any improvement requests here are waste, so bad it sounds.

Actually nobody is the winner on PC (except Riolu perhaps, he managed to do fine after all ).
Nadeo lost players and player's confidence, players lost patience and some nice features they are used to.

Sometimes I have the impression that you take this much to easy, because you see only one specific feature, here the "camera 1", but you don't really know what it means to decide, design and to develop something in a bigger project.

See it also from the other side: "many" (how many is "many", I don't know ) have asked the devs for various customization features in Maniaplanet.
Now, today, how many are really using them? How many people are showing what they are doing with it?
Xrayjay? Domino54? Don't forget reaby and Oliverde8, and others..
Was it worth the effort and the time to implement this?
How many complained about the titles and block system? And how many want still more flexibility?
Where should the decision be taken for this or that?
Well, they cannot leave just any decision up to some people who are claiming something.
Actually there is no end.
At some point, we have to leave decisions to the inventors and the creators of the games.

Nadeo thought to do us "old PC players" a favor, by releasing Turbo also on PC... perhaps they better never had.
But this is not the end, there is still Maniaplanet, and Hylis seems to be counting much on it, not only for Trackmania but also for Shootmania.

Finally, there is a saying: "vote with the feet", meaning that there is always one possible decision at the end.
For both the developers and the players... guess what

[xrayjay]

I presume that most of the people did not understand correctly that Trackmania Turbo is an independent game and has nothing to do with maniaplanet and it´s features (beside the technically base of both games)

As TMarc wrote already, we/you have to live with nadeo´s decision how some things are in this arcade style racer and that´s imo ok.

TMT is a fully independent arcade style racing game and if i follow hylis post it´s exactly how i named it. It´s not an sequel or an extension or "the new version" of maniaplanet. Turbo is fully independent and stand alone.

Maybe it has not been announced enough or whatever, many peoples see TMT as a "new version" or "the next part" of maniaplanet, what it´s not.
For the "new version" of maniaplanet we just have to wait a little if i read hylis post right.

Maniaplanet 4 will arrive (soon) someday So we just have to wait and get in touch with independent arcade console racer Turbo, that´s it, or stick to maniaplanet 3 and race oldskool style and wait for mp4 and it´s new possibilities what nadeo wants to give to us

Of course (and i hope that) that nadeo listen to the peoples (customers) what they like and what they don´t like and improve mp4 in a good way that almost everybody will be happy

And don´t implement uplay to maniaplanet! thank you

See it also from the other side: "many" (how many is "many", I don't know ) have asked the devs for various customization features in Maniaplanet.
Now, today, how many are really using them? How many people are showing what they are doing with it?
Xrayjay? Domino54? Don't forget reaby and Oliverde8, and others..
Was it worth the effort and the time to implement this?

It was totally worth if you ask me and i´m not the only one (as you named it) who uses these possibilities, maybe i´m "the one" who shows here what he´s doing (only for items part^^). But there are many others who uses these great possibilities (just to name a few: tm+ / tipii and crew, stunters / spaii, meuh etc.) and many others very talented guys. Don´t forget all those 3d car model creators on maniapark and many others.

[Whitestar]

That is not really an explanation though. The English is a bit shaky, but if I understand him correctly then what Hylis is saying is that it would be unfair to reinstate cam1 for the PC version only, because it would create a difference between the versions and make switching from the PC version of TMT to the PS4 version harder.

To me, that's entirely missing the point. If you (as developer) are going to push out such an update, of course you are going to make it available on all platforms. I mean, unless there is a reason that makes it impossible to do so, why wouldn't you?

I thought about this on and off since I bought the game, and I just can't think of such a reason. If there were a good reason to exclude cam1, then I would be happy to accept it. But as it stands, this just comes across as stubbornness on Nadeo's part.

Could not have said it better myself. Fully agree!