You have an opportunity for reconciliation. Why not take it?

[iamajellydonut]

I am speaking to Nadeo.

Let's face it, TrackMania Turbo received major backlash from the community, and people aren't exactly happy with the current state of Maniaplanet 4 or the terms and conditions of the free copy of Lagoon for people who participated in the closed beta. But there is an opportunity to reconcile with your community right in front of you. I seriously think that allowing Turbo owners who participated in the closed beta for Lagoon to keep the game FOREVER would restore a LOT of the lost respect the community had for you. If I had my way, ALL owners of Turbo for PC would receive a free copy of ALL the TM2 environments with no expiration date, and they could give extra copies to friends. It's not like you wouldn't still be able to make money from those games. But I guess beggars can't be choosers.

I'm unsure what this vagueness and lack of transparency would accomplish other than monetary gain at the expense of your community. Is this a financial issue? If you are struggling with money, let the community know! I'm 100% positive there are plenty of hardcore fans who would be ready and willing to donate a substantial amount of money without expecting anything in return, myself included! Heck, I'd absolutely purchase Lagoon at full price if it means helping you out of a financial hole. Is it Ubisoft? Are they exploiting you for monetary gain? Is there no other parent company willing to take you in?

I care deeply about your well-being. TrackMania has helped me through some tough times, and it's thanks to you. I'm sure there are plenty of other people who feel the way I do. But as much as I care, I am willing to do everything in my power to give you bad press if you continue down this path of deception and corporate greed. I have friends in this community, and those friends have friends. This is not an empty threat.

Please. Let the community know you care. If not, I will do what I must.

[nighthawk4571]

You are being unjustly rude. Can this nasty little thread be locked please?

[iamajellydonut]

You are being unjustly rude. Can this nasty little thread be locked please?

I think you are missing the point. I like Nadeo and TrackMania. Love them, even. I want to see them succeed, and I want Nadeo to continue making high-quality content that I am ready and willing to pay for. I even offered financial support without expecting anything in return if they are in a financial hole. Perhaps I failed to communicate that in my initial post.

My concern is that Nadeo doesn't care about the well-being of the game and its community as much as they used to. Considering the problems people have with them these days didn't really start until after Nadeo was aquired by Ubisoft in 2009, Ubisoft may be the guilty party here. At the BARE MINIMUM, I want clarification as to whether or not decisions such as...

1...their insistence on distributing all of the TrackMania 2 environments in separate packages instead of multiple environments in a single package like they've done with pretty much all of their other TrackMania games (even Turbo)...

2...their decision to release a TrackMania game across multiple platforms and giving the PC users the same length stick as the limited console users without taking the time to introduce a redeeming feature like cross-platform play...

3...their lack of transparency as well as their vagueness and late clarification of the terms and conditions of the Lagoon closed beta and the free copy of Lagoon given to testers...

4...their apparent refusal to reconcile with upset fans by giving people who participated in the Lagoon closed beta full access to the game without a needless expiration date...

...are their own decisions, or if they are the result of Ubisoft ruling them with an iron fist.

I care, and I wish success for Nadeo. But I am unwilling to give support to a company who sells themselves away for monetary gain, and I'm concerned that's what Nadeo is doing right now.

[meuh21]

Who are you to write " I want clarification"

This topic is useless because of course Nadeo won't discuss about their marketing strategy here, because it's only a duplication of an other locked topic and because of his very bad spirit...

Best decision would be to lock this topic.

Take a breath M. FREE (i've just read your first messages in this forum and the last ones in this topic ).

[rat_in_car]

And again and again. Some customer asks Nadeo for answer and gives answer from users instead - users, who wants to show Nadeo how nice they are and how much they fight against any bad press. Consider that maybe you're rude when you do not allow difficult questions. I will be happy to hear answers too, but not from worshipers, who are happy when buy the same game even 5 times for "support".

Of course I know all that arguments like "they spend lot of time making xxx or yyy". I heard of person who call some lame IT guy for repairing his computer (some not so difficult problem). He spend over hour without success. But he demands payment for his job, because he was "working so hard". I think that customers don't must to know how hard is to make a game and how important is to support hard workers. They can (and should) have their opinions based on effects. TMT was unplayable and programmers refuse to make any fixes, so the only reason I didn't regret that I bought it was promise that at least I can get Lagoon on MP with normal servers and everything.

Programmers are adult persons, they do not need (I hope!) to be praise just for how hard they work (like small children).

[iamajellydonut]

Who are you to write " I want clarification"

This topic is useless because of course Nadeo won't discuss about their marketing strategy here, because it's only a duplication of an other locked topic and because of his very bad spirit...

Best decision would be to lock this topic.

Who am I? I am a member of this community with concerns. Concerns about the future of the game and its community. I want to see this community thrive. I want to see this community continue to create and share their creations like they've been doing for the past 10+ years. I want to contribute to this community. I HAVE contributed, in fact. I bought all the TrackMania games available on Steam at full price minus Nations (free), United (sale), and Lagoon (haven't bought it yet). I've made plenty of tracks for both ManiaExchange and Steam Workshop, and some car skins for the latter. Through Steam, I have clocked 21 hrs into Turbo, 120 hrs into Valley, 144 hrs into United, 164 hrs into Nations, 304 hrs into Stadium, and 848 hours into Canyon, adding up to a total of 1,601 hours in TrackMania collectively, significantly more than any other game series I've played in my entire life. And that isn't even counting the hours I've spent in offline mode while moving to new homes. I don't leave my games open in the background, and I make extra effort to keep my hour count as accurate as possible. I've built a YouTube channel almost entirely around TrackMania, showing off my Author Medal runs on Nadeo-made maps, showcasing mine and other people's content, generally having a good time. Or at least trying to in recent days.

Look, I'm not trying to brag. I'm not trying to make myself out to be some kind of celebrity in the community that should be allowed to do whatever they want. There are plenty of people who have been here from the very beginning and have contributed WAAAY more to the community than I have. What I AM trying to do is make a point that my intentions here are in good spirit. I'm trying to make a point that I love TrackMania. I want to see it keep going. And it is for those reasons I criticize. People don't achieve greatness by surrounding themselves with a bunch of yes-men and just doing whatever they want. The only thing your refusal to provide a legitimately communicative argument against me and resorting to a condescending "who are you" does is devalue my deep and sincere love for the game and its community. So sorry if I'm just a little bit offended.

Fine. I'm a grown man, I'm willing to admit my own mistakes. You're right. Of course Nadeo won't discuss their marketing strategies. It's not a good idea to do so. I can take this further:

Nadeo wants to keep shipping all the TrackMania 2 environments in individual, overpriced packages? Fine.

Nadeo wants to make a watered-down console spinoff game for a franchise whose biggest selling point is player-made content without expending a few extra resources for a potentially redeeming feature like cross-platform play? Fine.

Nadeo wants to blow off a golden opportunity to regain some respect they've lost from many hardcore TrackMania players instead of simply snipping the pointless expiration date off of the terms and conditions of the free copy of Lagoon for closed beta testers, even when taking into consideration there are still plenty of people who will pay good money for Lagoon and all of their other games? FINE.

But this vagueness and lack of transparency is unacceptable. I don't know about you, but I'd personally prefer know EXACTLY what I'm getting myself into five or more days BEFORE a thing happens rather than five or more days AFTER it happens, especially if said thing involves money changing hands like it did with Turbo. I can deal with an issue out of people's hands like the whole ShootMania demo thing not working properly. But what's the point of public relations if you refuse to relate to the public?

I love TrackMania and its community. I really do. But if it comes down to it, I'd rather see a gaming company die a hero than live long enough to become the villain.

And again and again. Some customer asks Nadeo for answer and gives answer from users instead - users, who wants to show Nadeo how nice they are and how much they fight against any bad press. Consider that maybe you're rude when you do not allow difficult questions. I will be happy to hear answers too, but not from worshipers, who are happy when buy the same game even 5 times for "support".

Of course I know all that arguments like "they spend lot of time making xxx or yyy". I heard of person who call some lame IT guy for repairing his computer (some not so difficult problem). He spend over hour without success. But he demands payment for his job, because he was "working so hard". I think that customers don't must to know how hard is to make a game and how important is to support hard workers. They can (and should) have their opinions based on effects. TMT was unplayable and programmers refuse to make any fixes, so the only reason I didn't regret that I bought it was promise that at least I can get Lagoon on MP with normal servers and everything.

Programmers are adult persons, they do not need (I hope!) to be praise just for how hard they work (like small children).

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. Thanks for your support.

I also wish that they would actually package the TM2 environments in a single package like they've done with United and even Turbo instead of forcing people to basically purchase the game five times like you said.

I also agree with the fact that people shouldn't bite off more than they can chew. I agree that hard workers should be properly compensated for their hard work, but life isn't always sunshine and rainbows. As it turns out, there are evidently fully-grown adults with jobs in customer service who somehow don't understand this. It kinda makes me concerned for the future.

[meuh21]

Who am I? I am a member of this community with concerns. Concerns about the future of the game and its community. I want to see this community thrive. I want to see this community continue to create and share their creations like they've been doing for the past 10+ years. I want to contribute to this community.

I think your attitude is not the best way to contribute...

I agree that hard workers should be properly compensated for their hard work, but life isn't always sunshine and rainbows.

Life is definitely not like this but maybe we can try to make this game and this forum a place with sunshine and rainbows. It depends on us.

[TMarc]

Hylis has already tried to explain the reasons in the Lagoon topic.
There are reasons which go beyond bis possibilities as head of Nadeo.
So if he can't help, you should perhaps address to the boss of Ubisoft.
Discussion here is useless, at least for now topic locked.