[Mesh Modeler] - My experience: Bugs, Crashes, Suggestions

[killerboye]

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Hi Nadeo or whoever is responsible for the tool

First of all, I want to say that I love the addition of the mesh modeler in MP4. It's such a powerful and comprehensive tool to create items with. Especially for mappers like me. Just being able to go straight into the mesh modeler from the map itself and able to create an item with the exact size you want, is a-m-a-z-i-n-g.

An example about my last sentence:


My experience with the tool started when I wanted items that would improve the drivability of the rail tracks recently added to TM² Valley.

1. [Suggestion/Bug?] The possibility to add vertices/edges to existing shapes
Explanation: Create a rectangle with for example face mode or edge mode. If you go out of the creation mode accidentally or you want to add a a vertice/edge later, then the collection of those vertices/edges can't be used to create a face with (using the "Fill Edges with Faces" tool or pressing F). I'm aware that it is possible to merge/group existing faces, but it's necessary to also have either some kind of merge tool to merge vertices/edges or be able to select vertices/edges and create a face with the before mentioned tool.

Simple illustration: Four edges not made in the same session. Double clicking on one, only selects one (not all if they would be made in the same creation "session"), no way to merge the vertices or edges = no way to make a face:



2. [Bug] Creation of a large face (after creation, it consists of multiple faces) causes some faces to be on the wrong side of the plane
Explanation: Haven't used the mesh modeler enough to actually get the root of the problem (what exactly causes it consistently). If this happens I run into issues where I have edges marked in a red color (edge bound to to many faces), so I have to remove the face/edges and make a new one or select the current face and mirror it. I tried testing, but it doesn't always happen. Not really a huge issue on it's own (with 3 it is).

3. [Crash] Mesh modeler crashes when trying to use the materials mode when having red edges (bound to too many faces)
Explanation: In combination with the bug above, I experience crashes when I have red edges and I go to the materials mode and then to custom UV. It doesn't always happen. But I did a few tests and it can happen fairly often. I have a bunch of crash logs that maybe could help. Many access violations when reading the logs myself: Direct download link

4. [Bug] Maniaplanet doesn't make a log crash on every crash (Not necessary related to the mesh modeler)
Explanation: I tried replicating the crashes above and I noticed it didn't make any log crashes this time around. But sometimes it does

5. [Bug] When creating an item from block model, it will hold some metadata (file size) even when deleting all vertices in the mesh modeler
Explanation: I noticed this bug when creating items from existing blocks, adding a face to the item and deleting the part that came originally when creating the item from the block model, then saving in the mesh modeler and then saving in the item editor. My goal was to make a layer for an existing block so I needed the nadeo block as reference.
Example: I made an item from a Curved rail block = 1,535 KB, went in the mesh modeler of that item and deleted (CTRL+A, DELETE) all vertices, then saved it in the mesh modeler, went back to the item editor saved it there too = 303 KB. If I now would remove the visual mesh in the item editor then it is 1 KB like it has to be. 303 KB is quite a lot for an item which is quite a waste of embedded item space when people want to embed multiple items in a map. Luckly, meshes can be saved as crystals and later be imported to a fresh empty item, so that's how I temporary went around this bug. Because at the end, my items are almost 800 KB together (still perfectly embeddable when all used in a map), but with having the extra 50-300 KB (depending on what block you start creating your items from) for EACH item that could have made my item pack 5MB+ which wouldn't be embeddable in a map anymore. (Just wanted to explain the impact ^^). Here are the the item files: Direct download link

6. [Bug] Maniaplanet tells me, I have unsaved changes when exiting the mesh modeler when I already pressed the save button right before.
Explanation: This happens irregularly, sometimes it doesn't ask me, but most times it does. In the map editor, it also gives the same popup window when exiting while having unsaved changes (where it works 100%), but in the mesh modeler it doesn't. I did some testing and the popup happens every time when I have a face selected (I can try to save 5 times, but because of that face is selected, it doesn't let me exit instantly). I guess selecting is considered to be an unsaved change to the mesh

7. [Suggestion] Be able to save the item itself after saving in the mesh modeler
Explanation: While there is a save option in the mesh modeler, it is useless, because if my game crashes for some reason than the item wasn't saved with the new version of the mesh that you just saved inside the mesh modeler. So having the functionality that the item saves too when you press the save button in the mesh modeler, would be great. Because having to save the mesh, going out of the mesh modeler (back to the item editor) and have to save it their again, can be tedious. Or having an autosave option could solve this all (for the map editor please too ).

8. [Suggestion] When selecting a face and going to materials mode, be able to see what material/texture was used.
Explanation: Often I want to remember what material I used or I want to check out what material Nadeo used for their blocks when opening an item from a block model in the mesh modeler, but when selecting the face and going to materials mode I only have to option to manually go through all the materials/textures to see which one has been logically used. There are often some cases where it is hard to see from which material/texture the part was taken for the face. So having a highlight over the material/texture when you select a face would be nice!

I guess that's all for now. Maybe some advertising for my items, because in the proces of making them, I found all these bugs and was able to write the suggestions mentioned above.

Oh lastly, can the Maniaplanet Documentation for the Mesh Modeler please have more content like tutorials or explanation about advanced tools?
Because I mainly had to learn it by trial and error and it was a rollercoaster.

Ty for reading!

Greetings eFFecT

[Demented]

Nicely written killerboye.
I too can relate to learning the editor by trial and error and I wonder how many things can be done in there that I have no idea about yet. Having never used a mesh editor before I'd guess half of what I've learned to do in this one was by accident and by trying different things.

[Alinoa]

Hey Effect ^_^

Thanks a lot for this full and constructive feedback

Have a great day

[niebo26]

Hello killerboye !

First of all, thank you for the love and support for the MeshModeler, it really means a lot and it's really appreciated !
Then, the corrections of the things you mention here may take some time as there's other things with more priority right now but i hope i'll be able to fulfill everything asked here ^^

1/This is a bug introduced on the last version where clicking on an existing vertex to create another edge doubles the vertex, hence not making a valid geometry for selections and fill edges...

2/ This may happen when you create faces that are not on the same plane and orient themselves with an "average normal vector" calculated from the creation you made. You may also have this issue with the spline creation tool where some faces get inverted (by the way, for a better use of spline creation, you can just create a spline and extrude it (with E or the button)). It's a known issue and so far the best option i can give you until a fix is use the I key : it inverts your selection ^^

3/ I couldn't reproduce the crashes but seeing the logs, it comes from the Modeler, so i'll look more into it

4/ Haha not on my side, gonna report it too (maybe it's in normal logs too) ^^

5/ For facilities in loading a mesh, there's data added to the Crystal. We'll be working on a clean up on this at some point

6/ The selection does count for a change. Maybe i'll make it not count in the future

7/ Suggestion given to the person in charge of item editor ^^

8/ There's actually already something (i think it's written in the small help tool on top left of the screen) : right click on a face automatically gets you to the material used on that face (very useful if you have variants of materials and even checking in the list is then not enough information ^^)

PS : Yes, we definitely need to have more (up to date) tutorials on this tool and hope some players make some (or i may give it a try on my spare time, maybe) ^^;

Your rails items look very nice ! Hope you're gonna make more items like these in the future ^^

I hope everything i said answers your questions, thank you so much for your constructive feedback !

Niebo

[Demented]

Wow Niebo, Nice reply. Lot's of well answered questions there. Thank you.

I should say, I too love this new feature (the mesh and item editor). One reason I love Trackmania so much is that I love to create things and this item/mesh editor opens up a new door to huge possibilities. I just finished making a Desert like all sand track that consists of nearly all items that I created.

You guys keep up the good work there.

[killerboye]

First of all, I don't always check the forums every day, so this is the first time I read all responses on the topic.

... so far the best option i can give you until a fix is use the I key : it inverts your selection ^^

Thanks for the tip!

8/ There's actually already something (i think it's written in the small help tool on top left of the screen) : right click on a face automatically gets you to the material used on that face (very useful if you have variants of materials and even checking in the list is then not enough information ^^)

Wow I thought I read that help window like 20 times already, thanks for the explanation

Yes, we definitely need to have more (up to date) tutorials on this tool and hope some players make some (or i may give it a try on my spare time, maybe) ^^;

I'm open to help with making tutorials for the mesh editor if I get some ideas from others (I'm not the best to come up with ideas, I'm more a "This problem -> Solution" type of person (like with the rail items)). A suggestion, doing a combination of written (step by step) and video (w/ commentary) tutorial can really be the best way to learn and let people understand how to make simple but useful things with the modeler. I'm able to help with that.

Your rails items look very nice ! Hope you're gonna make more items like these in the future ^^

Thanks!