Collision Detection for TM2

[tmmaniac]

Hello Folks,

i know collision detection is a topic discussed many times before.
But I think this is a really essential feature that's been missed in trackmania before and therefor I wrote an email to Nadeo hoping to get heard..
(they told me to post my requests here, and well.. that's what I do now!)

This was the Mail i sent to them, and the one I received:

Hi TMManic,

We don't discuss about suggestion mail bu we encourage you to share this
suggestion on the dedicated forum
(http://forum.maniaplanet.com/viewforum.php?f=28) to see the players'
reactions and maybe to discuss publicly about this idea

Kind regards,
Nadeo

Le 18/07/2011 19:45, TMManic a écrit :
> Hello Nadeo and developers of Trackmania 2,
>
> i'm a long term trackmania sunrise player and I really liked the game.
> In my opinion the gameplay options are pretty much perfect - but there is ONE thing that really
> needs to find it's way into Trackmania 2: Collision detection.
>
> We want to race against each other, not only against time. We want to feel each other, the
> opponents, the tiny space between the cars, the bodychecks in curves etc. this is completely
> different in contrast to time trials all the time and for sure the biggest thing missed in
> trackmania yet.
> Just think about the hilarious fun it'd be to kick your mate out of a looping to get up one place.
>
> In a perfect world, trackmania 2 implements collision detection as an optional feature, so oldschool
> people can start servers and race time trials without it and other ppls can start servers and have
> fun with collisions all over the tracks.
>
> Please hear and listen to the wishes of your fans! We would live this kind of new gameplay!
>
> Best Regards!
> TMManic

So in this Mail I have already said everything important about it. We want collision detection because it's just hilarious fun! And it is the thing Trackmania has been missing since the beginning.. the feeling of real round based races where you drive against your opponents head to head and not only against a digitized time counter.
We want it to be an optional (server) setting so the guys saying "we'll never want collision detection" can still have fun playing time trails and races all day long if they want and others can kick their buddies of the loopings in a way never seen before..

I know I'm not the only one out there wanting this feature, so please raise your voices and tell me and Nadeo your comments!

Greets,
TMManiac

[BLiNNeMaNS]

If you want collision detection you also need some sort of system where you can use multiple trackstarts.
(or a bigger trackstart and wider track (or tiny cars))

So although you'd like it, i don't see it happen

[maniaman]

maybe this feature would work with just 2 cars type race
the start would be changed so two cars can start side by side

[isamu]

In any case, I don't care what any of the haters say, I agree with this suggestion and think it most definitely should be an option in TM2! Having collisions as an *option* isn't going to hurt anyone and for those who don't like the idea, simply don't enter the servers that have it enabled.

It's not like all of a sudden there's going to be nothing but collision servers...c'mon, there will still be plenty of collision-less severs to play. I personally think that the environment Canyon, with it's realistic looking graphics, is appropriate to something like collisions.

Please Nadeo, there are more people in support of this idea than you think. Make it happen!!!

[tmmaniac]

maybe this feature would work with just 2 cars type race
the start would be changed so two cars can start side by side

I don't see a real problem there. Of course you can't transfer the gameplay of time trials 1:1 to a race with collision detection, but this shouldn't be the aim!

So let's think about the Problem of "Many Cars, less space on Tracks and Collision Detection":
What could be done to achieve a working gameplay with collision detection races so that Nadeo doesn't have to rebuild the whole structure of tracks and blocks?
A few thoughts about things which can solve these problems (there might be a ton of others, though):

Think about a real Formula 1 race. They obviously have collision detection in real-life, and how do they solve the problem? They don't start all from one point, they start in two rows one after another when the signals shows green. They make qualifyings to determine the order of the start.
So like in Real-Life Formula 1, -ONE- option could be: make a time-trial qualifying without collision detection of lets say 2 or 3 rounds to determine the startup order for the race. Then when the race starts, with collision detection on, all start from their achieved qualifying position (remember two rows, one after another).
This way all racers have a chance to get through the first corner and all have enough space on the track(bricks) TM used so far.
First Problems are ahead when a racer is slower than another, or vice versa - and thats what we WANT. Then collision detection can be a hell of a fun when racers fight against each others around the corners or loopings to hold their position or to get forward.
This is the REAL DEAL imo.

If we keep the formula 1 example, TrackMania was nothing but formula 1 qualifyings _without_ the real races afterwards! so the real action didn't take place at all over the years! This definitely must change in the future and TM will kick ass like nothing else out there yet!

[tcq]

I'm definitely against collisions, because they simply doesn't fit into an arcade racer like tm is one.
If i pick up your F1 example.
Have you ever seen a F1 car doing a loop or jump hundredths of meters? No, because this would definitely destroy the car and put the racer into danger.
And if you now take a look at tm. You can build the craziest stuff, but if you build only one short passage where you need to aim correctly or to have a distinct amount of speed you see why collisions won't work. What if the player in front of you don't know that he needs to take this one curve no-slide full speed to be able to make the next jump.But instead he looses a little bit of throttle and you need to do the same because else you crash into him, no one of you two will make it to the next section of the track.

Sure you want to have collisions, but if and only if (and i'm totally against it) you need to have an integrated program that checks that there are no jumps inside a map, that every respawn works, that this map has to be a rounds map and not a TA map and ...
I think you get my point and i don't see why nadeo should invest so much time if they are working on 3 different games.

[breach]

I´m on tcq´s line here.

Getting into car collisions would ruin what TM is all about (imo) and if this would ever (god forbid) be on the drawing board at Nadeo studios into the Trackmania brand i would be really surprised.
There are racing games that this is already implemented in, Grid to mention one. If someone is looking for "THE REAL DEAL" i suggest look into a completely different game. Trackmania to me is all about the fiction of it all. The jumps, the loops, the speed and the fact that there is NO collisions.

[ionian]

I have never played a racing game with collisions that doesn't turn into a competition to see who can ram as many people off the road as possible. Games like GT5 & TDU2 are ruined online by players hitting each other. Every game turns into a Burnout clone, no matter what the developers intentions, and I would hate to see TM go down that path.

[BLiNNeMaNS]

I have never played a racing game with collisions that doesn't turn into a competition to see who can ram as many people off the road as possible. Games like GT5 & TDU2 are ruined online by players hitting each other. Every game turns into a Burnout clone, no matter what the developers intentions, and I would hate to see TM go down that path.

well, the idea of collision detection isn't focused on the main game, just a feature server owners can turn on (and scripters can use to build modifications using maniascript)

[Jer76]

First of all,

Have you ever seen a F1 car doing a loop or jump hundredths of meters? No, because this would definitely destroy the car and put the racer into danger.

Wowowow, calm down with the crazy statements here; I don't see any proof!!!1

On topic, trackmania is about pushing your own limits to the maximum. You fight against yourself, you make yourself better after every run, and that's the reason why there's so much fairplay here.
Add collisions and you will find yourself fighting against "that one naab who made me lose time in the last turn." And guess what sort of behaviour comes with this.