A few thoughts about the timer in Singleplayer

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Cr3atex
Posts: 18
Joined: 27 Sep 2011, 15:25

A few thoughts about the timer in Singleplayer

Post by Cr3atex »

I've played Singleplayer for a bit and would like to share a few thoughts about it with you.
Sorry for TL;DR, just needed to be written :P

First of all:
I do like the idea behind it, making Singleplayer more exciting and those races especially thrilling. I also like the official leaderboards etc.
However, it is just not fun. It is frustrating. I'm not talking about A08 and anything in that vein, but about the system in general.
I guess Rounds/Cup mode from online served as in inspiration for this, and they are fun and exciting, just as the timer function should be. There are a few fundamental differences however that make online fun and timer mode frustrating.
The fundamental difference between the two is that the online modes are well, online, and each race is only for a limited amount of time with a limited group of players. That makes it always a risk-reward situation- do I drift as close as possible, getting a very good time but risking contact with the sidelines? Do I try noslide here, but risk crashing into the fence? The thing is, 20 people are asking themselves the same question online. I'm competing against them right now. It's a risk/reward situation.
The problem in offline mode is precisely this: You are not competing against 20 people, you are competing against 20 000 people. You are not competing at the same time and with the same amount of attempts, but against as many attempts as your opponents have time. That means in the end, the top times are as good as they always there because somewhere someone had a lot of time on his hands and tried so much that he got that perfect run once. The timer does not make top times more exciting because of risk/reward, it only means they take a lot longer to achieve.
As for making the races more exciting- Sure, that is true. And for some races it does work, though never as good as online, but those are a limited selection of tracks. It works on the easy tracks where you have to make a risk/reward calculation for some drifts/loops/speed etc. I still find it annoying, but I could imagine that people like it somewhere.
But the timer is applied indiscriminately to all tracks, and that is seriously bad. The worst example is obviously A08, which is a track of pure luck anyway. Without the timer, this would be quite fun, trying to get a topscore and laughing about crashing half a second before you'd make your best time.
But there is a reason that this kind of track is never found on a cup or lap server- it is based on pure luck. Official races on this are pure frustration, because the person with the most time wins, because one try will be the one.
That is true to a lesser extent for all the harder or luck based tracks, especially for people like me who don't invest that much time in TM and don't have that much skill. It is just plain frustrating to have one try every 5 minutes on a track you can finish once every 10 races with a passable time.
Singleplayer has become a lot less attractive to me in Canyon, just because the timer irritates me. Sure, I can just race the track and upload my Replay to TMX, but there is an official ladder which I want to climb. And it irks me seeing it there but having this frustrating timer which limits any progress.

Sorry for ranting and TL;DR, I just had to let it out :)
dsi1
Posts: 45
Joined: 26 Sep 2011, 01:46

Re: A few thoughts about the timer in Singleplayer

Post by dsi1 »

It would be fine if the timer was dynamic, based off of the record run.

A minute+ track is fine to have a 5 minute timer on, but a 30 second and lower track is just horrible with 5 minute breaks.
paralipsis
Posts: 57
Joined: 14 Sep 2011, 00:03

Re: A few thoughts about the timer in Singleplayer

Post by paralipsis »

Cr3atex wrote:Sorry for ranting and TL;DR, I just had to let it out :)
I think this is the least rant-like criticism I have read on the timer.

As someone who has no great problem with the timer, I found your post to be quite enlightening. In fact, I think it was well-enough argued to sway my opinion somewhat. If all "rants" on forums were as polite, well-argued, and reasonable as this, the internet would be a much nicer place.
Cr3atex
Posts: 18
Joined: 27 Sep 2011, 15:25

Re: A few thoughts about the timer in Singleplayer

Post by Cr3atex »

Thx :)
Yeah, probably the worst part about the timer is that it is applied indiscriminately to each and every track, regardless of style/length/difficulty.
I really hope Nadeo can change it somewhat, else I'll return to Dedimania or TMX for records :P
GideonB
Posts: 9
Joined: 01 Oct 2011, 18:38

Re: A few thoughts about the timer in Singleplayer

Post by GideonB »

I think this is actually a pretty damn good arguement compared to other reasons

I prefer it this way though, as it means I can focus on some other tracks, come back to one and then go for it immediately although the waiting period may annoy me, I'm not fussed either way since I haven't got a real problem with the timer

Now I don't have to whore coppers to play official times :D
eBusiness
Posts: 7
Joined: 27 Sep 2011, 09:57

Re: A few thoughts about the timer in Singleplayer

Post by eBusiness »

Totally agree.

I do like that the system prevents backspace spamming, no need to worry about whether or not finishing a run is worth it, but the shorter and the more luck-based a track is the more this limit is simply preventing us from doing what we'd really like to do, play for an official time, rather than just practising.

Give us an official attempt once every bronze time, I think that'd be appropriate. And implemented with a time accumulation effect so that you don't have to break off the current training run when the timer hit zero in order to maximise the number of official runs.

About comparing the 5 minute system to the copper system, the copper system may be worse, that doesn't make the 5 minute system good.
v4nkw15h
Posts: 11
Joined: 23 Sep 2011, 12:27

Re: A few thoughts about the timer in Singleplayer

Post by v4nkw15h »

I picked up on one comment you made and that is about track A08 being pure luck. It isn't.

I also thought as you did but after playing it for a while I realised that it's actually quite controllable. Put it this way, I can complete it every time without crashing if I want to with a reasonable time that would score a few thousand points in official mode.

Obviously the faster you go the harder it becomes to control but that is like every track in the game. The world records on that track are not a fluke, they are the result of lots of practice.

I don't really have a strong enough opinion either way on the subject of the timer to make a comment though.
Last edited by v4nkw15h on 07 Oct 2011, 14:17, edited 1 time in total.
metoxys
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Posts: 1969
Joined: 15 Jun 2010, 20:45
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Re: A few thoughts about the timer in Singleplayer

Post by metoxys »

Cr3atex wrote:The worst example is obviously A08, which is a track of pure luck anyway. Without the timer, this would be quite fun, trying to get a topscore and laughing about crashing half a second before you'd make your best time.
But there is a reason that this kind of track is never found on a cup or lap server- it is based on pure luck. Official races on this are pure frustration, because the person with the most time wins, because one try will be the one.
Who are you? metoxys? Wait, that's me^^
How dare you think what I am thinking? :clap:
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