I am not happy with current state of Trackmania

[metoxys]

The following is my opinion.

-all energy on Stadium 2 ( better 1 good environment
then 3 half finishesd ones)
-with more arcade steering then canyon
-even less realistic approach then canyon
-far more blocks
-more fun blocks
-better support for mods and different modes (but thats
planned in maniaplanet 2.0 i think)

- there is no Stadium² and the environments aren't half-finished
- the steering in Canyon is very competitive
- far more blocks = far more work. there will be more blocks, also for canyon
- more fun blocks? are you serious?

[luftisbollentm2]

Now when you say it like that, the buggy steer makes it a bit more challengeing.
Sometimes its enoying to hit a steer bug even its my own foult becouse i steer to much but that makes it fun.

Iam still hope that valley be the best environment to come.

@jojoba007
you know who many half finished games there is , that we don´t know about yet.
and all games is half finish sometimes.
________________________________________________________________________
No one is stupid becouse. ? we always learn new things.

[jojoba007]

The following is my opinion.

-all energy on Stadium 2 ( better 1 good environment
then 3 half finishesd ones)
-with more arcade steering then canyon
-even less realistic approach then canyon
-far more blocks
-more fun blocks
-better support for mods and different modes (but thats
planned in maniaplanet 2.0 i think)

- there is no Stadium² and the environments aren't half-finished
- the steering in Canyon is very competitive
- far more blocks = far more work. there will be more blocks, also for canyon
- more fun blocks? are you serious?

What I mean with half finished is that I think Nadeo could better put more energy in one good environment like
for example Stadium 2 instead of splitting energy on 3 environments. All the work they have to do for 3 environments could have been spend on to one very well balanced environment with far more blocks, probs, etc. etc.
Like league of legends, for a long time they had only one environment but with well balanced characters that you could buy, unlock etc. etc.

I know the steering is competitive, but I dont like it, and that is not because I cant handle it. Just my opinion.

Yes, I'm serious, more fun blocks.

Dont get me wrong, I'm a big fan of stadium and tell everybody to play
and buy it! But I cant do that with the current state of TM2. Maybe later, we will see!
I trust Nadeo that the end product will be great! But not the current TM2
and its pay model! Ok, I'm not totally honest. I will tell people to buy TM2, because
I want Nadeo to have a money flow so they can affort it to finetune TM2 and keep the team alive!

Thank you so far for your hard work Nadeo!

[Demented]

Wasn't Stadium Free in Trackmania Nations?
I would be curious to see how many people actually purchased all seven previous environments and still think Canyon is not worth buying.

[Omnixor]

me... and many other stadium players, who own united, tried canyon and didn't like it.

[Alter-Fox]

I think the target audience for Canyon was aimed more at the people who have been playing TM since the beginning in 2004, when there was no stadium and Trackmania was more about environmental variety... and people who haven't played Trackmania at all yet. Both of those groups seem to like Canyon better than the Stadium players. Whether it was made for you or not, well, that's for you to decide.
I'm sure there will be some TM2 environments that are geared more towards Stadium players, though they still won't look or feel exactly like stadium. Let's have patience and see where this journey that we've just started will take us.

And let's not preach our opinions as if they were the gospel .

We have a huge community here. I can think of one really obvious thing we could do to help solve the freezone problem and get Nadeo to put Nations back to the way it was. Why don't we all lobby Microsoft to bring its advertising program back so that Nadeo can use it to get shiny moneys again? It would only take a few minutes from each of us.

[FrostBeule]

I think the target audience for Canyon was aimed more at the people who have been playing TM since the beginning in 2004, when there was no stadium and Trackmania was more about environmental variety... and people who haven't played Trackmania at all yet. Both of those groups seem to like Canyon better than the Stadium players. Whether it was made for you or not, well, that's for you to decide.
I'm sure there will be some TM2 environments that are geared more towards Stadium players, though they still won't look or feel exactly like stadium. Let's have patience and see where this journey that we've just started will take us.

And let's not preach our opinions as if they were the gospel .

We have a huge community here. I can think of one really obvious thing we could do to help solve the freezone problem and get Nadeo to put Nations back to the way it was. Why don't we all lobby Microsoft to bring its advertising program back so that Nadeo can use it to get shiny moneys again? It would only take a few minutes from each of us.

doesn't google also have in-game advertising? could be something to look into. and yeah you're right when you say TM2 was geared more towards those who played TMO and TMS (and later on TMU). my main beef with that is just that they advertised TM2 as a sequel to TMN aswell, especially as an esport. i think that was a mistake. i talk more specifically about it in this post: http://forum.maniaplanet.com/viewtopic. ... 814#p92814

and while it's cool that you are positive that there will be a stadium continuation (im not as sure), what makes you think exactly that it wouldn't look or feel the same? when they continued stadium from TMNESWC to TMNF it was pretty much the same game but just with more stuff added and minor tweaks to the gameplay. i think that's what should be done again if it gets a continuation, because there's still ALOT that can be improved on it. it's better to build on something that is already there, instead of starting from scratch. i especially think that's important for an esport.
and another thing is that if there is a continuation, i wouldn't wanna see it be just another environment among the others in TM2. that wouldn't go hand-in-hand with the independent concept that TMN has always had. so i would suggest keeping it seperate (but it could still be part of maniaplanet i suppose).

[NullWojtek]

Thank you for replies.

It's good to hear Nadeo is aware that FreeZone is not as good as it should be. I think main issue with Freezone it's that it affect both free and paying players. So is see no good incentive to pay at all. If you just play Nations, getting United don't give you much value, it doesn't make Nations experience what it used to be before FreeZone existed, I hope this is clear.

Some may think of Stadium as just another Trackmania enviroment, but I think that Stadium changed what Trackmania is in some (imporetant) way, and because of that I think Trackmania can't exist without Stadium anymore.

I was thinking about other solution for Nations to make money, but it's not easy. If you lost your advertising contract, most obvious solution would be to look for other company offering similar service. Well this is so obvious, so I assume there is no company offering alternative? How about other forms of ads, for example video ads. Display 30 second full screen video ads every 5 tracks and offer to get rid of them for 10€ one time payment.

About Canyon, I think it's really good, car driving mechanics feel lot more complex than any previous environment (same way Stadium's were in my opinion). In terms of graphics and complexity (details) of blocks there is good improvement, however I feel there is little lack of variety, but i believe this is something that will be fixed in future (update with additional blocks or so).

About pricing, I'm sure for every loyal trackmaniac, 20€ per environment is not much, but It's all depends if we consider this as whole game or as part of bigger thing. I would think about it differently depending on how often new environments are released. If it's about every 12 months, then I think it's rather fair price, but cheaper it is more people will get it, and it is important for multiplayer game to have lot of players. Still there is issue with people who only get one environment and don't get others, and it may be that some of envis will be less popular than others, so if you get only one environments and it turns out to be least popular one you may be out of luck.

[Hylis]

Thank you for replies.

It's good to hear Nadeo is aware that FreeZone is not as good as it should be. I think main issue with Freezone it's that it affect both free and paying players. So is see no good incentive to pay at all. If you just play Nations, getting United don't give you much value, it doesn't make Nations experience what it used to be before FreeZone existed, I hope this is clear.

Some may think of Stadium as just another Trackmania enviroment, but I think that Stadium changed what Trackmania is in some way, and because of that I don't think Trackmania can exist without Stadium.

I was thinking about other solution for Nations to make money, but it's not easy. If you lost your advertising contract, most oblivious solution would be to look for other company offering similar service. Well this is so obvious, so I assume there is no company offering alternative?

About Canyon, i think it's really good, car driving mechanics feel lot more complex than any previous environment (same way Stadium's were in my opinion). In terms of graphics and complexity (details) of blocks there is big improvement, however I feel there is little lack of variety, but i believe this will be fixed in future (update with additional blocks or so).

About pricing, I'm sure for every loyal trackmaniac, 20€ per environment is not much, but It's all depends if we consider this as whole game or as part of bigger thing. I would think about it differently depending on how often new environments are released. If it's about every 12 months, then I think it's rather fair price, but cheaper it is more people will get it, and it is important for multiplayer game to have lot of players. Still there is issue with people who only get one environment and don't get others, and it may be that some of envis will be less popular then other, so if you get only one environments and it turns out to not be least popular one you may be out of luck.

Many points you say are quite rights I think. For Stadium, we are looking at solutions while working on many topics and only time will tell what happens. We always have new opportunities that can replace others and my role is to pick the best in the various situations. People who think they would rule better the company would make other choices off course, but that's the best I can do.

[Alter-Fox]

and while it's cool that you are positive that there will be a stadium continuation (im not as sure), what makes you think exactly that it wouldn't look or feel the same?

Because this is Trackmania we're talking about. TMNESWC is to TMNF just as TMS Extreme is to TM Sunrise -- TMNF was an expansion, not a continuation, from my point of view -- all the TM1 games have got expansions and TMN was no exception. I think TMNF was also an attempt to make it more of it's own game and less of the bare bones for an esport -- as far as I'm concerned I think that went too well . I'd be all for Nadeo continuing to expand TMN if they think that's a good idea, though I still won't play stadium .

But I'm sure that there will be environments in TM2 that are targeted towards stadium players. Hopefully they'll be diverse enough that there's something for non-stadium players to like in there too.