I am not happy with current state of Trackmania

[NullWojtek]

Hello, I'm new on the forum, but not new to Trackmania. Not sure if I'm posting this in correct place, also I hope this kind of harsh speech is welcomed by both Nadeo and community. We need to talk about what is wrong, so we can make things better.

I really enjoyed Nations Forever, it was both great in terms of quality and popularity. However i feel things went downhill a lot since then. I think first big mistake was introduction of FreeZone in TMNF. Whatever intention of Nadeo was I don't think this made people buy United or move to Canyon. Only effects is slow decrease in Nations player base. Is this good idea to kill your most successful product until you have proper successor?

I don't think Canyon is bad game, actually I like it a lot. But with only one environment at price of full game, it's not good successor to classic Trackmania games (let alone United). Also obviously it's not successor to Nations either. I'm not saying TM2 should be Nations successor at this point, there is nothing wrong in making non-Stadium environments first and leaving best (Stadium replacement) for later. We could wait for that, but not in conditions when Nations community is actively being killed. What TM2 is would not be big concern if you could leave TMNF as it is, it's simple as that.

I feel that Nadeo plans about ManiaPlanet (TM2, SM, QM) were far too ambitious. Best proof of that are constant delays. Also I don't think Shootmania will be as successful as Nadeo hopes for, same with QuestMania (whatever it will be). FPS and MMO RPG markets are far most completive than racing games market. I understand that Nadeo want to expand to new markets, but they should understand risks involved. Betting everything they have (Trackmania userbase) on something so risky is bad strategy in my opinion

TM2 can be good game in future, we need to see more environments, and we need to see them offered together for fair price. If there is bunch of good TM2 environments offered for good price, this can be good United successor. Then it would be good time to make Stadium like environment in TM2 that would be great successor for Nations. But this will take years, and leaving all Nations players (majority of current Nadeo userbase as I understand) with nothing for such long time is not responsible. There is very simple solution, remove FreeZone, so we can all peacefully wait for things to come.

I think Nadeo main goal should be to meet expectations of it's established user base. It's not like people interest will change to fit to product your provide, you should change your product to fit what people are interested in.

[Timmeh7]

Am I wrong, or are there so much posts on this forum like this one? (no offense though, only means you are caring about Trackmania/MP). You have your opinion, that's fine, but this post won't change Nadeo's mind or something. I, personally, have an entirely other opinion, because I think those 20 bucks for the game are not too much. There is no game in the past years that entertained me for so many hours (>100). And it's like 1/3 of the entire game.
I can also understand the way of releasing it in episodes. Nadeo simply is a small company and all 3 envis will take very much time to do, so releasing it in parts would at least provide some profit in a shorter way.

TM2 can be good game in future, we need to see more environments, and we need to see them offered together for fair price. If there is bunch of good TM2 environments offered for good price, this can be good United successor. Then it would be good time to make Stadium like environment in TM2 that would be great successor for Nations. But this will take years, and leaving all Nations players (majority of current Nadeo userbase as I understand) with nothing for such long time is not responsible. There is very simple solution, remove FreeZone, so we can all peacefully wait for things to come.

See, I think the simple solution you are searching for, so that the community gets something without waiting years, is the episodic release of TM2.

As I already said, I like your enthusiasm:

We need to talk about what is wrong, so we can make things better.

But don't you think it's too late to critizise Nadeo's concept or ManiaPlanet? It is indeed very ambitious, but more important pretty damn innovative.

[alonsega]

man all TM2 really needs is that maniaplanet 2.0 update, which will expand canyon into anything and everything, all exept the car itself that is, but thats ok cause the TM2 car is actually the coolest yet, its got the speed and its got the drift thing.
Of course, by the time that update actually releases not only might I loose interest in TM2, and not only might I loose interest in TM as a whole, I might actually by then loose interest in pc gaming altogehter, and I think that what Nadeo need to realise is that good things come to those who wait but not to those who wait too long.

[NullWojtek]

See, I think the simple solution you are searching for, so that the community gets something without waiting years, is the episodic release of TM2.

I see what you mean. Definitely selling TM2 in episodes is not worst idea by itself (however not very consumer friendly). But combined with working on 3 games at same time (which slow thing down a lot!) and crippling your own legacy (FreeZone) it is getting quite bad.

You say it's too late to change Nadeo plans, no doubt about it. I just hope in case Shootmania won't be very successful (and like i said i think this may be the case) Nadeo will rethink their stategy and focus more on Trackmania.

[FrostBeule]

nice post NullWojtek, i agree with pretty much everything you say. what i want to add is that also from an esports point of view i feel like Nadeo haven't been smart about it lately. not caring about the game or the esports community anymore and basically just abusing it to promote TM2 as an esport instead trying to replace TMN have been a very bad development from Nadeo. the majority of the esports community are still playing Nations and very few have moved over to TM2, but Nadeo just don't seem to care about that whatsoever and seem to be more interested in just using esports as a way to promote their new products.

oh and about freezone, there's this poll with over 2000 signatures: http://tm-freezone.org/index.php but im pretty sure it doesn't mean anything to Nadeo, sadly.
though it would definitely be a good first step in the right direction if they removed, or atleast reworked freezone so it makes more sense. because right now it's just ridiculous. one can only hope.

[adder]

I have to agree that the freezone concept is not the best one ever designed.
However, I do see the point of it:
Nadeo is letting you play the game for FREE, but it still costs money to
maintain the gameserver, pay their employees,...

Together with that, the income from the ingame advertisement was decreasing.
So they needed another source of income, witch eventually became Freezone.

Freezone is not that fun but its better then no game at all.

oh and about freezone, there's this poll with over 2000 signatures: http://tm-freezone.org/index.php but im pretty sure it doesn't mean anything to Nadeo, sadly.

You could just buy united, it costs 10 euro's and that means a lot to Nadeo.
Isn't it a little greedy to not want to pay 10 euro's, and with that money you are making sure that
nadeo has money to create more epic and awesome games.

10 euro's: thats all it takes to remove the freezone and to support nadeo...
you maybe need to consider that
Besides, whats a better way to spend 10 euro's, than spending them on one of the best games ever?

[NullWojtek]

It's not that simple. You can buy United to remove restrictions for yourself, but unless everybody else buy it too, you are not getting pre-FreeZone experience. Most servers operate now in FreeZone mode with FreeZone restrictions (most of those restriction apply to server config itself, not just for non-paying players) and this is where most of players play. I would pay Nadeo 10€ (or more, just name the price ) to remove FreeZone (restore everything to previous state).

About esport aspect of TM I am concerned about that too, but i didn't want to comment about that, because I am not esport player so I may not get whole picture.

[FrostBeule]

You could just buy united, it costs 10 euro's and that means a lot to Nadeo.
Isn't it a little greedy to not want to pay 10 euro's, and with that money you are making sure that
nadeo has money to create more epic and awesome games.

10 euro's: thats all it takes to remove the freezone and to support nadeo...
you maybe need to consider that
Besides, whats a better way to spend 10 euro's, than spending them on one of the best games ever?

the point is not whether there should be a way to support Nadeo or not. OF COURSE there should be. all im saying is that i don't think freezone is the way to do it. i think there's many other - better - solutions out there.

oh, and i own 2 united-keys.

[eyebo]

FreeZone is too much stick, not enough carrot.

[Demented]

I am a fan of Canyon. I like the game and think it (as is) was worth the money. A big complaint seems to be the cost for a game with only one environment in it. I live in the U.S. and most PC games here cost about $40 -$60. TM2 was only $25 here. That's around half the cost of most games. That being said, I do think a good solution to the cost of each environment should be offset so that you pay full price for your first purchase then if you buy future environments you get a 50% discount or something. IE: you buy Canyon for $25 then maybe get Valley for $15. This rewards fans of the game and keeps costs reasonable. Maybe even offer a discount to TM2 owners for SM and QM.