dreammyw0w wrote:IPL6 maps also sucked when they came out...
Just have to get used to them I guess.
Actually, if they sucked then they still suck. There are some things which are just poor design issues in terms of maps. I went through some basic flaws of map design in one of my videos. Quickly listed the most common flaws of map design being:
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Dead space (only a small portion of the map actually being played on) (Examples: Daybreak, Cloudlight, Dawnville, TheCastle)
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Wasting attackers time by forcing him to run for a long time and waste all his stamina before he can even see or shoot at defenders (Examples: Daybreak & Cloudlight. Taking away 15-20 seconds of the attackers time before he can even challenge the defence is too much, that's 25-35% of his total attacking time. Think about that number for a second)
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Poor timings out from def/att spawn, forcing defenders to play far back because they can't reach certain areas before attacker (Cloudlight is perfect example of this. Dawnville as well to a certain degree)
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No feasible way of playing aggressive out on the map and then slowly rotating back towards pole as capture approaches (Examples: Cloudlight, Daybreak, TheCastle, Rust to a certain degree)
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Lots of chokepoints in towards pole (Example: Cloudlight, Dawnville)
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Poorly placed poles (Example: Daybreak. In a corner with no way of escaping once you reach it)
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Poorly designed areas around pole making it possible for defence to play 3 people near and around pole the entire map (again, leaving only 10% of the map actually being used. Examples: Daybreak, Cloudlight, Dawnville v3, TheCastle)
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Extremely static defence playing 3 same positions entire map through with no rotations whatsoever (Examples: Ironfist, Daybreak, Cloudlight, Dawnville)
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Possible to get on top of the map and gaining a severe heightadvantage from a safe place vs defenders (Examples: Dawnville)
I'm by no means good at designing maps myself, and I realize there are limitations on what you can do with the editor in terms of realizing visions of maps. Believe me, I've tried and given up several times. That however, doesn't mean I can't recognize maps that are poorly designed, are boring to both play and spectate.
And saying "why don't you go design a map" isn't a counter-argument to my points regarding poorly designed maps. In fact, it's a way of not wanting to discuss poor map design in general.
In the end it comes down to what kind of maps you want I guess. Some people like Ironfist/Daybreak type of maps with defenders camping same 3 positions close to pole all round through. Personally it bores the hell out of me because it becomes less about teamplay and more about individual skill for each defender compared to maps were you can play in many different ways, that needs good calls and rotations and in general more teamwork to succeed on.
Not to mention those type of maps have more variety and are far more interesting to watch because each round is relatively different and not the exact same.
I'm opening myself to lots of flame and hate for making such a post, but despite the outrage over the map pack that was adopted by ESL there hasn't really been any serious discussions within the community regarding map design overall. It has just been one big flamefest over the maps and how bad they are without any real discussion about what constitutes a good map, how do we go about designing such maps and what things should we avoid.
Overall I think a map pack should contain several different types of maps opening up for lots of different playstyles, but when over half the maps in a map pack is severly broken in many ways and end up being one big campfest around the pole, something has to be said and done.
Discuss
haV wrote:what I have been thinking about the map pool!
Take maps from ESL, IPL and CG maps (CG maps will have to be created first), then have a vote on witch maps should be in the map pool for that season!
So for example, say we have 20 maps available to us. All the maps go up for voting and the top 7 maps are used for that season.
Next season the 5 of the 13 none picked maps will be replace with 5 new maps. for season 2 we repeat the same steps.
The system is good as long as the maps that can be voted for are good enough. The problem with the new map pack was that it was a bunch of terrible maps we could vote for. And Paladin2k13 got voted in. No offence, but we could just as well keep the original, 2k13 offers nothing new in terms of gameplay except maybe sligthly different positions around pole once capturetime comes around the corner. Defence can't play any differently up untill that point so in the end the gameplay becomes the same.
Which is a shame
the same map for 15years now.
