TM² Stadium confirmed for ESWC 2014

[Alinoa]

TrackMania² Stadium and ShootMania confirmed for ESWC 2014.
More information on the ESWC news: http://www.eswc.com/en/info/trackmania- ... -eswc-2014

[Edster]

Not to be a downer, but just a word of warning: If you do choose to compete in ESWC playing Trackmania, don't expect to get paid, even if you make the finals...

frostBeule's tale of money he won in 2008 yet still hasn't received: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIJWZ9BvmIw Ethically seems very dodgy to me.

[LT.Forever]

Not to be a downer, but just a word of warning: If you do choose to compete in ESWC playing Trackmania, don't expect to get paid, even if you make the finals...

frostBeule's tale of money he won in 2008 yet still hasn't received: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIJWZ9BvmIw Ethically seems very dodgy to me.

I'm sorry but more and more it seems to me that he is just bragging about it to get more attention to himself. Why don't previous 2009-2013 winners complain about that? That "boycott" won't solve anything. If fB is really desperate about his money and proper relations with ESWC, why doesn't he talk to a lawyer and take this to an official level?
eSports is not about boycotts and personal matters, eSports is here to unite people! So go ahead and feel free to participate/root for your favourite driver.

[hackie]

Well , its sad what happened to FB.
But we all heard the story from one site I think.
No responce from ESWC or who is responsible for FB his cash.

But thats like 4 years ago.
And yes no one else is complaining about that.

Is this not a game ?

[FrostBeule]

Not to be a downer, but just a word of warning: If you do choose to compete in ESWC playing Trackmania, don't expect to get paid, even if you make the finals...

frostBeule's tale of money he won in 2008 yet still hasn't received: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIJWZ9BvmIw Ethically seems very dodgy to me.

I'm sorry but more and more it seems to me that he is just bragging about it to get more attention to himself. Why don't previous 2009-2013 winners complain about that? That "boycott" won't solve anything. If fB is really desperate about his money and proper relations with ESWC, why doesn't he talk to a lawyer and take this to an official level?
eSports is not about boycotts and personal matters, eSports is here to unite people! So go ahead and feel free to participate/root for your favourite driver.

I feel the need to explain my reasons as to why I'm boycotting ESWC so people don't incorrectly think I'm bragging about not getting my money paid (this doesn't even make sense).

Firstly, the only people who haven't been paid (as far as I know) are the winners from 2008. This was the last event before the company behind ESWC went bankrupt (they would later buy back the brand under a different company and start hosting events again without paying the money from 2008). Secondly, previous winners have complained about it, but they just haven't been as vocal and/or public as me. Also it's entirely possible that other winners did get paid by ESWC (as they said they would do in 2013: http://www.eswc.com/en/info/eswc-2012-prizes-1), but they might have decided to not pay the lesser known players such as me since they knew they could get away with it. This is the reason why I wasn't vocal about my boycott in 2013 since I was lead to believe by Matthieu Dallon (the CEO of ESWC) that I would finally get my prize-money. But when he stopped replying to my emails as the year came to a close, I realized they had decided to just ignore me (perhaps they felt they had done enough to improve the reputation of their brand which seems to have been the goal). This made me feel that I had nothing to lose anymore and I figured I might as well go public about it to spread the word and make sure people know what kind of organization they are dealing with, and hopefully prevent the same thing to happen to others.

I know this is a close to impossible situation for me to get my money back since ESWC are protected by the French law: apparently it's ok for companies to buy back their brand after they went bankrupt with their old company and continue like nothing ever happened. It's really absurd to me, but such is the law as I've been told. This makes litigation a very poor option, not to mention how incredibly expensive and complicated the process is in the first place. It's not a walk in the park as you make it seem like.

I think it's very naive of you and hackie to think eSports is just about enjoying playing the game and having fun and nothing else. Sure that's the most important thing and why I started competing in the game, but this does not mean that companies involved in eSports should be able to do whatever they want and however they want without any consequences. That would be ridiculous in my book. This is not how it works real Sports and neither should it be accepted in eSports. I've taken a stand against this by boycotting ESWC since I feel that's ethically the way to go, and it makes me feel good about myself.

I know I'm doing the right thing, and I will continue to publicly tell my story because ESWC does not deserve to be mentioned positively once the history-books of eSports starts rolling in. I will make sure of that.

[LT.Forever]

I am sorry if my post sounded offensive as I did not mean to insult anyone or encourage others to think negatively about you. Nowadays I have seen way too many examples of silly and attention seeking people (and their posts) which appeal to the reader's feelings by being "sad" and "unfortunate". That's why I developed a general pessimistic opinion about everything that is similar.

Also, I did not say that you do not have the right to be public about this situation. The only thing that bothers me is the boycott itself. In my eyes this means that if most of the TrackMania fans follow your decision and start boycotting the event, ESWC and the company behind it might as well just cancel TM as a discipline because nobody is interested in it (implying, that most of the people which are interested in ESWC and TM know you and your opinion on this) and since we all like this game, this would indeed be a pity.

Naive or not, but I hope to see TrackMania not only as another casual game where you can spend time with your friends and participate in some fun competitions organized by the same community, but also as a professional discipline where players have the opportunity to "go pro" and even make a living by participating and winning in bigger tournaments (okay, I might have exaggerated here).
I'm sure Nadeo also has a similar wish/goal.

My point here is that boycotting can somewhat harm the TM scene and that's why I once again encourage others to be supportive of this game and their favourite drivers. Of course, I respect your decision as much as I want the problem to be resolved. Being vocal about it is not a bad thing, I just find the measure to be not that good, but it's just a typical situation of seeing things differently. Hopefully you and others understand that.

[FrostBeule]

I am sorry if my post sounded offensive as I did not mean to insult anyone or encourage others to think negatively about you. Nowadays I have seen way too many examples of silly and attention seeking people (and their posts) which appeal to the reader's feelings by being "sad" and "unfortunate". That's why I developed a general pessimistic opinion about everything that is similar.

Apology accepted. I definitely have done the mistake of jumping to conclusions too quickly myself in the past, so it's ok.

Also, I did not say that you do not have the right to be public about this situation. The only thing that bothers me is the boycott itself. In my eyes this means that if most of the TrackMania fans follow your decision and start boycotting the event, ESWC and the company behind it might as well just cancel TM as a discipline because nobody is interested in it (implying, that most of the people which are interested in ESWC and TM know you and your opinion on this) and since we all like this game, this would indeed be a pity.

Naive or not, but I hope to see TrackMania not only as another casual game where you can spend time with your friends and participate in some fun competitions organized by the same community, but also as a professional discipline where players have the opportunity to "go pro" and even make a living by participating and winning in bigger tournaments (okay, I might have exaggerated here).
I'm sure Nadeo also has a similar wish/goal.

My point here is that boycotting can somewhat harm the TM scene and that's why I once again encourage others to be supportive of this game and their favourite drivers. Of course, I respect your decision as much as I want the problem to be resolved. Being vocal about it is not a bad thing, I just find the measure to be not that good, but it's just a typical situation of seeing things differently. Hopefully you and others understand that.

Trust me, I'd like to have the game grow into a proper eSports with all its benefits as well. But I really struggle to see why ESWC would be the way to achieve this goal. It's definitely fine to be supportive of the game, but I don't think it's a good idea to do it by ignoring and being indifferent to things that are wrong. Stuff like this needs to be called out, and have consequences, otherwise we won't see any improvements. That's how the world develops.

In my opinion, a better idea would be if we try to grow an eSports from the grass-roots to build a good foundation and a stronger community, instead of relying ourselves on being part of these kind of unserious events. In the long-run I think that would benefit us much more. I believe we can do much better, and that's what we should strife for.

[Omnixor]

ESWC can still be considered the "1v1 Trackmania world cup", so, until there's no another "world cup" for TM, most pros will still participate in it to prove they're the best. Your boycott would be useful if TM was a discipline in WCG e.g., or if Nadeo/Ubi organized a TM "world cup" and call it official one; so ESWC wouldn't be the only one.

[FrostBeule]

ESWC can still be considered the "1v1 Trackmania world cup", so, until there's no another "world cup" for TM, most pros will still participate in it to prove they're the best.

Indeed, most people are completely ignorant and indifferent to something like this (that is, until it happens to them too). I think that's a shame, but as said hopefully with my boycott I can at least spread the word and maybe prevent it from happening to others. To me, eSports is and always will be something more than just proving that you're the best.

Your boycott would be useful if TM was a discipline in WCG e.g., or if Nadeo/Ubi organized a TM "world cup" and call it official one; so ESWC wouldn't be the only one.

I don't really get your point I'm afraid, care to elaborate what you mean? Anyway, I don't think ESWC is or deserves to be a "world cup". It's just a shady eSports event who don't pay their prize-money. We've seen lots of them before in eSports-history, and sadly they are still around.

[Omnixor]

I mean, ESWC is the only huge 1v1 tournament, and unless another one appears, your boycott won't do much (I guess).