gouxim wrote:Web sites are something for "advanced" players. You need to search for it to find them, and it happens outside the game.
But with a Manialink frontend they would gain better integration and would be able to reach way more players.
Will it be possible to have a "don't show ManiaPub" setting for "advanced players" that use this external sites?
Because at the moment the whole ManiaHome system is just a pain if you only want to play. In comparision to MP1, it takes ~15-30 seconds longer to be able to load a title, than it took with MP2. Even if you are fast and click on the Canyon screen it (before ManiaHome is loaded), the system doesn't load canyon until it has finished to load ManiaHome. And this sometimes takes a very long time (up to 50 seconds).
Haven't seen yet how ManiaPub is integrated into the ManiaHome station, but this is just what I fear at the moment.
tcq wrote:Will it be possible to have a "don't show ManiaPub" setting for "advanced players" that use this external sites?
No, there won't be such an option.
tcq wrote:Because at the moment the whole ManiaHome system is just a pain if you only want to play. In comparision to MP1, it takes ~15-30 seconds longer to be able to load a title, than it took with MP2. Even if you are fast and click on the Canyon screen it (before ManiaHome is loaded), the system doesn't load canyon until it has finished to load ManiaHome. And this sometimes takes a very long time (up to 50 seconds).
Haven't seen yet how ManiaPub is integrated into the ManiaHome station, but this is just what I fear at the moment.
ManiaHome slowness is a problem we've been working on. The problem is not so much the average response time (which is pretty good), but the standard deviation. It means that the extreme values (extreme slowness in your case) are way too extreme. I am confident that this will be fixed, eventually.
I am a bit surprised by the values you're giving me. I'm going to investigate a bit more. Can you refer to that post http://forum.maniaplanet.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=13165 and answer a few questions there? That way we keep that topic on the right subject.
Please do not PM for support. Instead, create a thread so that everyone can contribute or benefit from the answer!
gouxim wrote:Please note that when we do an "Explore" page, it will be based on the ManiaPub database anyway. We need to do that for moderation reasons. The idea behind that page is to be able to somehow browse Manialinks that are currently advertising on ManiaPub, so even a Manialink paying 10 Planets a day on ManiaPub will be in this system.
I don't like seeing the maniapubs so I don't want to force the other players to see a maniapub for my manialink.
I would still like to have my manialink displayed on an explore page.
Could we choose to only display our manialink on the explore page? We could pay for this.
Why do you say that? Don't you like seeing cool stuff made by the community and highlighted directly on ManiaHome ?
First, I think that it is sad to copy the money/publicity system from the real world into a game.
In a game, there is no reason to force a player to see a publicity.
I want to see the stuff made by the community only when I search for it. Having just a button "Community creations" on the maniahome would be better.
There are two way to find "stuff" in general. Push or pull.
Pull is good when you know what you want, you know the channel etc. For instance you want to find community creations, so you go to the forum, or tmx, or whatever.
Push is also necessary, because you are not omniscient. So you stay open to new content arriving through push channels. This is why you listen to radio, or watch tv, or read your facebook timeline ; you might end up discovering a cool new stuff that you were not looking for in the first place.
Advertising is a push channel. In that regard, it is a good thing (if the channel is effiencient, see last paragraph). You are kept aware of new stuff by the producers of the stuff themselves. But in our western societies, advertising has went to two extremes. First, we are often flooded by ads ; just like information, the more ads the less receptive the viewers. Second, ads are often way too intrusive ; for instance if, as 27 yo male, I want to watch a 10s video about laser pigeons and I first get a blocking 30s video about womens's makeup, it is bad because it is intrusive and it is badly targeted. That is why AdBlocker was such a good piece of software. Imo, if it has become like that, it is because lots of business now depend on advertising revenues ; beeing a tough business and a complex issue, it is often badly used (flooding instead of choosing good ad location, intrusive ads instead of good targeting, etc.).
Now in Maniaplanet, we have ManiaPub. It is an advertising platform because you "pay" with Planets to promote your content. It is a push channel, so in that sense it is for me a very good thing. Even if you go to the forum every day, you might not be aware of this brand new cool game mode, and maniapub may be a chance for you to get to know it. Why would be so closed to any sort of push publishing? (as I often say, that's not rethorical, I am eager to hear your opinion).
So we are left with the flooding and the intrusion issue. Here it is simple: our business does not depend on ManiaPub revenues ; our goal with ManiaPub is not to earn as many planets as possible ; our goal with ManiaPub is to provide a good publishing channel that is enjoyable for both the players and the creators. It is good for the players because they get to know fresh community content ; it is good for creators because it is a very efficient way of getting their creations known and used by a broad audiance.
One thing that could be discussed would be the efficiency of that push channel. Push channel may be a good thing, but if it pushes only crap, it is not a good thing. We are experimenting a lot on ManiaPub. The idea behind those experimentations is all about that issue. We are trying to make that push channel as exciting as possible. I do agree it is not perfect as of today, but how could it become better if everyone ticks an options to hide it? Isn't a better challenge for the future of ManiaPlanet to create a system that is used and liked by even the most anti-advertising players? I personnaly really think it is.
So in the end when you say stuff like "i don't like ads", "you copy the real world and it is bad", etc., aren't you mixing a little bit the idea of push channel on the one hand, and the misuse of advertising (especially on the internet) on the other hand?
Please do not PM for support. Instead, create a thread so that everyone can contribute or benefit from the answer!
1. the difference with internet is that there's no adblock.
2. why do you force all these social things? I don't want to see those fb-like notifications, I don't want to download all the content. I just want to enter a game and go to solo/multiplayer/editors. will there be any possibility in the future to launch the title directly with shortcut, without maniahomes'n'co?
gouxim wrote:So in the end when you say stuff like "i don't like ads", "you copy the real world and it is bad", etc., aren't you mixing a little bit the idea of push channel on the one hand, and the misuse of advertising (especially on the internet) on the other hand?
It's the whole concept of "push" that i don't like.
I prefer to just have an indication about where to find the new creations.
I will be able to look at it if/when I want to.
gouxim wrote:Push is also necessary, because you are not omniscient. So you stay open to new content arriving through push channels. This is why you listen to radio, or watch tv, or read your facebook timeline ; you might end up discovering a cool new stuff that you were not looking for in the first place.
gouxim wrote:So in the end when you say stuff like "i don't like ads", "you copy the real world and it is bad", etc., aren't you mixing a little bit the idea of push channel on the one hand, and the misuse of advertising (especially on the internet) on the other hand?
The quote by Omnixor works perfect here.
Omnixor wrote:1. the difference with internet is that there's no adblock.
2. why do you force all these social things? I don't want to see those fb-like notifications, I don't want to download all the content. I just want to enter a game and go to solo/multiplayer/editors. will there be any possibility in the future to launch the title directly with shortcut, without maniahomes'n'co?
In the Internet you can decide how you want to be confronted with stuff. If you don't like ads, you use an adblocker. If you have slow internet, you can only display pages in text view. If you want to have news, take a RSS-feed or go to a news site. If you are on FB and get notifications, you can decide about what you will get notifications. About 99% of all sites that work with notifications allow you to regulate them. Only ManiaPlanet does not. FB is necessary for keeping in contact with some kind of people because they are to stupid to use instant messengers. Maybe the ManiaPub channel is for the people like this. But educated people are able to find stuff if they search for it. It's nice to have this push functionality, but don't make it mandatory for people that are educated enough to find their way. If I don't want to watch advertisements, then I don't look at them. But in this case, even if you don't want to look at them, they need bandwidth in the background to be loaded and therefore hold me up. It's like you want to go to a train station to catch your train, but can't enter the through the main entrance because there are people hanging-up a poster over the entrance and blocking it. So you need to wait to enter until they finished their work.
That's one of the reasons why I haven't touched Shootmania lately, because it's simply no longer a game that you can start quickly to have a few minutes fun because you go to bed. It takes all of my nerves to start the game and if it's finally loaded I already lost all of my motivation to play it.
In the end, Akbalder explained everything in a few nice sentences.
Akbalder wrote:It's the whole concept of "push" that i don't like.
I prefer to just have an indication about where to find the new creations.
I will be able to look at it if/when I want to.
