[B2] Lost Pivots in Canyon

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TMarc
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Re: [B2] Lost Pivots in Canyon

Post by TMarc »

kripkee :roll: please :lol:
Hylis wrote:It is by no means our whish to be unstable. We are investigating it for sure, but this should rather motivate you instead of discouraging you since one can bring additional elements to it, or unblock certain problems. Perhaps you are simply in a transition phase towards 2.1 or 2.2, since like for the news, when things evolve, this goes on with transformation of functioning.

However I invite you to actively stay in a more experimental approach then for a finished product, as long as this feature isn't working stable. And if you give evolution requests, this is somehow logical since this functions actually evolves. Anyhow we often try to make the things stable, and the contents created by the players in the last 10 years often have been reputable.

++
P.S. I'll translate meuh21 a bit later if you also need it.
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kripkee
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Re: [B2] Lost Pivots in Canyon

Post by kripkee »

TMarc wrote:kripkee :roll: please :lol:
Thx a lot :thx:
Its annoy me, if somebody starts a thread in English and will be countinued in an other language.

Merry Christmas :D
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Re: [B2] Lost Pivots in Canyon

Post by Hylis »

thanks :thx:
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meuh21
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Re: [B2] Lost Pivots in Canyon

Post by meuh21 »

Hylis wrote:It is by no means our whish to be unstable.
I know and i didn't write it was a wish ;)
Hylis wrote:We are investigating it for sure, but this should rather motivate you instead of discouraging you since one can bring additional elements to it, or unblock certain problems. (...)
However I invite you to actively stay in a more experimental approach then for a finished product, as long as this feature isn't working stable.
I didn't understand the actual objects pivots system can be broken. Maybe it's my fault, maybe it's because you didn't explain that. But now i know :mrgreen:

It is difficult for us to experiment in one way if this way change. And it is also uncomfortable to start many objects and don't finish them because the system is not stable. For a few weeks it is not a problem, but for a few months... But here also it could be my fault because i want to progress too fast.

In the Maniaplanet, possibilities are huge and it is really awesome :thumbsup: . But it need more knowlegede and more time than before. So when we have to rebuild something it could be discouraging. Especially because this part of the "job" is not the more interesting. But we have to do it if we want to share our creations. And we can't share it if the objects feature is not stable (or if improvements brake something).
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TMarc
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Re: [B2] Lost Pivots in Canyon

Post by TMarc »

I think Hylis wanted to say: Please don't stop creating new objects, even if they cannot be used anymore with newer releases of ManiaPlanet. Because only then we all (at least those involved in objects) learn how to deal with object creation, import, and usage, and find issues and constantly improve everything related to it. :thumbsup:
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Re: [B2] Lost Pivots in Canyon

Post by TMarc »

And here Meuh21's larger message from above, sorry for the inverted order and the delay to translate it:
meuh21 wrote:(since all intervening people understand French I'll continue in Moliere's language to avoid possiible confusions)

The new system is certainly very good, namely to overlay objects. But it is a new approach qhich breaks the work done until now. If I've understood this well, to have modularity, one now has rather to create buildings in stackable « slices». Why now, even ig this will multiply the objects and ask more handling of the mappers.
Or we have to go back to complex objects ready-made (in the sense of the Nadeo blocks). But like Spaii, I was preferring a more « construction» like approach .

The old system allowed to have different configurations with a single object (e.g. more or less entrench an object could dramatically modify its appearance and add diversity, while having one single file for it). This was perhaps less intuitive but very efficient.

But what is annoying me a lot is the lack of stability in all this. Darmayas title seems to get stuck due to new developments which not only come along additionally, but which also remove previously existing functions. I was about to release a new version of Raid (even the teaser video is ready) with 10 new maps, many new objects and a new menu. But the objects don't work the same way and I might have to modify the pivots. In this case the mappers have to be asked to redo the maps (which have many arrows and borders...). This is deceiving! And I'm not talking of other objects like the chalet and its textures, on which I have been working many hours... I don't want to restart everyhting from scratch. It would have been nice to warn us earlier of this risk. And it was not difficult since a single topic in a single language is grouping everything concerning objects. The 3 or 4 geeks who stick up in objects could have anticipated.


It is difficult to build on quicksand, and rather than to be a beta phase I have the impression we are in a long alpha. I will reconsider, press the « Pause » button and to wait until ManiaPlanet gets more stable (and if possible with more infos) to continue on those topics.
Meanwhile Merry christmas to everyone from the world of objects.
<screenshot of the chalet with X-Mas greetings, please see above>
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darmaya
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Re: [B2] Lost Pivots in Canyon

Post by darmaya »

I share the same frustration with Meuh,
and after the pivot changing thing ( oh well, the "fbx" changing in dimensions, indeed), i put aside the 3dmx, photoshop, compressonator, filelist, filerenamer, graphic converter and all the paraphernalia that i need to produce my stuff.
But i do not want put aside my passion for that "thing", as meuh do not want, i suppose: we all share a special feeling for TM, and a special simpathy for Nadeo people and his "vision".

In MHO, Hilis give us the correct perspective, for now: test and experimenting.
Admittedly, we (builders) look for the "unexplored" and we must expect the "unexpected",
included things like this.
And in the experiment phase, we must follow them, and not they follow us, as in the case of a released product. In exchange, we got the privilege to build our vision over their foundations and in some humble way, partecipate in the adventure (The beauty is in the trip, not in the finish).
I noted, and appreciated the all's efforts to keep us informed and calms, but is evident that changes at this stage are 1 inevitables 2-part of the evolution 3-of big impact on "
---
Regarding pivots,
first, i admit my work is "heretic", at minimum, and do not pretend to be of general interest.
second, i have an "industrial" approach, that means i like to test the workflow more than the details, and modification of the nadeoimporter have big impact on my "production", as i work with chunks of 24 objects that i repeatedly (4) failed to assemble in a working Title...
In fact, this changes are deeply impacting the process up to the 3dmax setup, that means a mountains of work simply to go where we was 1 week ago, after 2 months of golgotah.

So said,
the "old" system was good for me because i usually need to level a big surface with Checkpoints, or i need to "submerge" a big stalgmites roof into terrain, to make a huge cavern.
For some special obj (the Nascar experiment) i used very smal steps, as +-0.1,+-0.2, to match the blocks/roads levels..
In general, submerge an object, even not elegant, is a practical solution to reuse the same object, as pointed by meuh.
The New system destroy completely the usability of my kind of objects, simply, for what it worth.

Maybe you can insert another method, like "Altitude Pivots: 0, 50, 100, 150, 200, 0, -50, -100,....) , a variation of the old one....
-------
No complains, on the contrary, encouragement parce que c'est evidentment un moment extremement complexe, et avec so many issues, that i can't even imagine, and you need more support than "us".
---
I want add a simple explanation on why MP has a big appeal on "us":
because it allow not only build something that can be "used" by others, but because MP give us the opportunity of an entire Title Authoring, something that make me dream to be a game creator :)
---------
So, keep going, les gas...
pa'lante meuh!
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meuh21
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Re: [B2] Lost Pivots in Canyon

Post by meuh21 »

darmaya wrote:because MP give us the opportunity of an entire Title Authoring, something that make me dream to be a game creator :)
+1
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choiko
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Re: [B2] Lost Pivots in Canyon

Post by choiko »

ahmm... i cant get clearly the explanation.. ahm maybe
need to be clear so that we can easily understand
about the explanation of pivot thanks... ^_^
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Last edited by choiko on 31 Dec 2012, 09:30, edited 1 time in total.
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spaii
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Re: [B2] Lost Pivots in Canyon

Post by spaii »

meuh21 wrote:
darmaya wrote:because MP give us the opportunity of an entire Title Authoring, something that make me dream to be a game creator :)
+1
+1
Hylis wrote:However I invite you to actively stay in a more experimental approach then for a finished product
Let's experiment :D :thumbsup:
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