New League?

[sadzealot]

Lol sadzalot, have u ever created a map ? And if u did, have you send it to mania actu ? And last question, do u even like only a map ?

Invalid point and argument, got nothing to do with the discussion at hand (just like every single post you make has nothing to do with the discussion or arguments in this thread)

If people are enjoying the maps, where is the problem. If they're enjoying the maps, maybe its because match on it are great.

Because it's boring as hell playing the same defensive setup round after round that is static and campy around the pole. Not to mention it's just as boring attacking on these maps after the 10th time with the same defensive setup.

And think about the spectatorvalue of static defenses with no rotations and same positions round after round.

The Launch Tournament in San Fran had very little views and non-players are already saying it out loud how boring this game is to watch. To add to that with terribly boring maps isn't helping. I wonder if Nadeo has seen the latest Live On 3? There are some powerful figures within the Esport community there saying it as it is, they tried watching the launch tournament but they found it to be boring (Ok, so they are former and current Quake loverboys, but their word and opinions does carry some weight).

Link to VOD - http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/389236068 (Starts at around 1h 55min 15sec)

Overall I don't think Elite is boring to watch, but many of the maps make it boring to watch.

And Munglo is right, I'm a bit of an asshole but posts like yours Dova, make that asshole shine through so clearly because your posts offer nothing new to the discussion, they ignore previously posted arguments and in general are all about "I like them, so they're fine".

Did I mention I like attacking on Ironfist as well, but I consider it to be a terribly broken map in terms of design?

Problem with Sadzealot is that he's a bit of an asshole. I am to but I hide it better.

Truer words were never spoken!

And this is the last post for me, I've said what I wanted to say in a post earlier on, it seems that more and more people are discussing map design now (even on reddit, more specifically for NA scene). I just can't deal with people like Dova who ignore the simplest of points and arguments.

[TMarc]

true, one must not have created any single map just to deserve the right to tell if the map is playable or not.

Some are great mappers but weak players, some are great players but weak mappers, and only few are blessed with the ability to both create great maps and play great as well.

Shall we split this topic to have some order again here?

[dovahk1n]

rue, one must not have created any single map just to deserve the right to tell if the map is playable or not.

I'm absolutely not saying that, i was just ASKING, it was a QUESTION. I'm just wondering, if he finds all the map shitty (even ironfist which he likes, he said its shit), why did he not create a map ?

Can't talk with that guy about a mappool, because he thinks every map pool suck for the moment.

And think about the spectatorvalue of static defenses with no rotations and same positions round after round.

It's the same thing with every games ! I played a lot on cod1, and everybody is using the same positions, but what its interesting is the teamplay. For example, on a map like ironfist, everybody got the same positions, but when someone die, the 2 others must take other positions, and its not all the time the same, because depend where the attacker is coming from.

So it's a real answer => u should use the new mappack, because every competition are going to use it. As Subette told on one of his stream, at the begining of shootmania, there was lot of different map pools and it was really annoying.

[TMarc]

I'm absolutely not saying that, i was just ASKING, it was a QUESTION. I'm just wondering, if he finds all the map shitty (even ironfist which he likes, he said its shit), why did he not create a map ?
Can't talk with that guy about a mappool, because he thinks every map pool suck for the moment.

Obviously you wrote it in a way that could be misunderstood as a reproach.
Try to filter out any offense some of us might have written, take it as incitation to improve your skills, and not as personal attack with desctructive criticism.

Players don't necessarily need to have to create maps. And even if they criticise existing maps, why should they try to create maps if they know they can't create good maps?

Well, we don't know if "that guy" (btw. he has a name, sadzealot) can't map well, he does not need to prove anyways.
He wrote quite a few interesting things about gameplay recently, and he writes what others may just think or do not dare to write.

Just to tell a map is "shit"... doesn't help much. Then you just can vote -- in game, and wait or go on to the next one.
But if you really want to help the thinsg to improve, it is much better give hints to the mappers, and this is what sadzelalot did.

With ManiaPlanet you have the choice to visit different servers with different mappools, that change much faster than any other game that exists.
Anyways that's life with ManiaPlanet. One map is great, another is bad. No one has to play all the time on the same map

This is only the beginning for ShootMania, and there are already many thousands of maps floating around.
Just look at ManiaExchange and check out how many tracks are there for TrackMania and Canyon, this is a totally different dimension
In TrackMania you find servers with maps only of the same type, and also servers with nice mix of various types of maps.
Everyone finds something, and this will also be for ShootMania sooner or later.

Yesterday I was competing with others on a server hold by the mapper playing himself there. He proposed a nice variety of different maps and he was very thankful and very attentive about the feedback the other players were giving him. Shame on me I don't remember the name

[dovahk1n]

And even if they criticise existing maps, why should they try to create maps if they know they can't create good maps?

That's why i asked him if he already has created a map, wanted to know if he tried and he thinks he's not good in mapping, or if he never tried and maybe he sould.

He wrote quite a few interesting things about gameplay recently, and he writes what others may just think or do not dare to write.

Just to tell a map is "shit"... doesn't help much.

It's just because my english skill is shit that i cant write interesting things. But few french mappers are asking me sometimes to test their map and to give my opinion.

And it's nice to see all the details which make the map failed, but a map has to be judged in a global way i think. For exemple, Cloudlight, its quite hard to stay around the pole, and often u're falling down on the ground and u have to go up again, which is a waste of time. But for the moment i've played it and even this failing is absolutely not ruining the gameplay, it can gives defenders time to go back to positions, and it give the possibility for the attacker to attack from a different side.
Of course i can enumerate a lot of fails in the new maps, but i still think those maps are not that bad as sadz said.

[MuNgLo]

well dovahk1n. I am at least willing to put my balls on the line.
My last map is starting to really come together so give it a go.
http://forum.maniaplanet.com/viewtopic. ... 20#p160446
I bet you will hate it.

No I haven't submitted it yet. I will but wanna try to get some more gameplay on it first. Hopefully run some test matches.

[dsi1]

Lol sadzalot, have u ever created a map ? And if u did, have you send it to mania actu ? And last question, do u even like only a map ?

Invalid point and argument, got nothing to do with the discussion at hand (just like every single post you make has nothing to do with the discussion or arguments in this thread)

If people are enjoying the maps, where is the problem. If they're enjoying the maps, maybe its because match on it are great.

Because it's boring as hell playing the same defensive setup round after round that is static and campy around the pole. Not to mention it's just as boring attacking on these maps after the 10th time with the same defensive setup.

And think about the spectatorvalue of static defenses with no rotations and same positions round after round.

The Launch Tournament in San Fran had very little views and non-players are already saying it out loud how boring this game is to watch. To add to that with terribly boring maps isn't helping. I wonder if Nadeo has seen the latest Live On 3? There are some powerful figures within the Esport community there saying it as it is, they tried watching the launch tournament but they found it to be boring (Ok, so they are former and current Quake loverboys, but their word and opinions does carry some weight).

Link to VOD - http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/389236068 (Starts at around 1h 55min 15sec)

Overall I don't think Elite is boring to watch, but many of the maps make it boring to watch.

And Munglo is right, I'm a bit of an asshole but posts like yours Dova, make that asshole shine through so clearly because your posts offer nothing new to the discussion, they ignore previously posted arguments and in general are all about "I like them, so they're fine".

Did I mention I like attacking on Ironfist as well, but I consider it to be a terribly broken map in terms of design?

Problem with Sadzealot is that he's a bit of an asshole. I am to but I hide it better.

Truer words were never spoken!

And this is the last post for me, I've said what I wanted to say in a post earlier on, it seems that more and more people are discussing map design now (even on reddit, more specifically for NA scene). I just can't deal with people like Dova who ignore the simplest of points and arguments.

I wonder what they think about Combo or Joust...

[dreammyw0w]

omg i almost forgot this!

I think Shootmania will use STEAM WORKSHOP to improve maps etc... DUH!
And that system is AWESOME.
So i guess , for now , we will have to play these 'less good' maps until a next mappack comes out.

( if u dont know it , look at CSGO etc )

[haV]

little bump

[IGLEyal]

Hey haV,

I'm running a new eSports league. We've already done some stuff with NADEO for the April 10th launch and the future is looking bright!

I found the post interesting because we're positioning our league (not a SM-specific league, it's a full gaming league that also supports SM) as an amateur-focused eSports league. We've created an automated platform on a proprietary framework for automatically handling divisional leagues. For ShootMania (and all other leagues), we run a division system with four divisions: Open, Main, Select, Premier.

We've also developed a matchmaking ladder for competing on an hourly basis, for your pug/scrim needs and for plain fun. To make sure the competition is healthy, the ladders are also tiered, with three Tiers that dynamically promote/relegate teams on a weekly basis.

I think there is some room for collaboration! No sense reinventing the wheel!

Let's connect,

Eyal

@eyaltoledano
IGLEyal on PlayIGL

PS. Check out the league at http://www.playigl.com