ShootMania - How active this game REALLY is.

[d0li]

Hi,

I'm d0li, the streamer Alit's was talking about.

I'm really on shootmania since maybe a year, but i bought it at the beta release day, like most of us.

I'm trying to make stream for living, and i can't tell you how frustrating it is to make more viewers on Sims4 at 4:00 AM than on shootmania when i stream online cups.

I really love this game. So much. I love the community. And i have to admit it's the only reason i keep streaming shootmania at least once a week. I did go to the opale arena to stream, and i will go to the next lan if i can. But it's really frustrating.

It is cause for me this game has everything.

For me it's a show game. You don't need to know the game to understance, or appreciate it on a stream. All we see is just so spectacular, the flicks, the moves, all the technics you have to master... It offers us a real show. And i like it. And i know my viewers like it.

I think this game could be enjoyable for all to watch, if it's not to play.

I always thought Shootmania was a hard game, where only "pro" can really play and appreciate the whole game, and i still think of it this way, this is why i stopped played competitive really quick to become manager. (We saw each other at GA lan, i was awsomniac manager.)

But at least, and that's the opinion of a streamer, we could present it to the world. If i have to stream in english for it so be it, i don't care. But watch this game give me adrenaline rush, it's so intense, there's so much possibility, i can't have any of those feels watching (or streaming) another game.

Maybe if you're not ready to show it to the world till elite doesn't look likes you want it to look likes, you could support event, or create one, that allows people to watch it, and live it the way we did.

Yeah, there's some probleme on shootmania, we can't deny it. There's a low playerbase, some bugs, like everyone said earlier. But i think a better communication plan could help.

At the opale arena, i did have some player that comes over the room to watch what i did stream, cause i was really living it. Maybe that's one way to expand your "reputation". I do love the game the way it is, but i'm no competitive player. And maybe some events should allow streamers to have more views, and so to give you visibility. Wich give you players, and so on.

Hope i did help a little with that message, if not, sorry. But this game could be really great with more people.

d0li

[HaagseSmurf]

Do as so many others, incl. myself, leave MP behind you

You didnt, you are here on this forum

This topic is again just like so many other long topics before with the same posters with the same arguments over and over again. I really wonder why some people who are talking about leaving 4 or 5 topics ago are still here. If you want to leave, youre free to go. If you dont want to leave, please come up with some ideas that will increase the amount of players instead of bringing up the same arguments again and again. Tbh i didnt hear some really new ideas, new tournaments, new gamestyles, new things what can wow people. In my opinion its still not only up to NADEO to bring other players to the game. So who has some nice ideas please let us know!

Greetz,

[Pedal]

Do as so many others, incl. myself, leave MP behind you

You didnt, you are here on this forum

Forum Yes, to occasionally check whats going on, stopped playing the games many, many months ago though.

I don't critizise those who still plays and enjoys the game, good for you. But those who are not happy and try everything to make a change should and need to realize it's a dead end and pure waste of time and energy, move on.

/P

[Hylis]

Pedal, you already said in the forum that you left the the planet more than a year ago. But if you think that novationx is losing his time by being negative, I agree with you. I hope that I am not entirely losing my time is to repeat again and again how much the negative players are not helping the community that is building stuff, but you are also maybe right that it seems something that is not ready to move.

Anyway, the top 3 steam reviews in french are saying the game is great, the top 3 steam reviews are saying the game is great but dead. Not that the game should be different. Oh, and there is as much french players than in the world. Negative players are really faulty, even if they think they are not. Pure negativity is clearly seen when even the number displayed on maniaplanet.com is put to suspicion.

Meanwhile, we will work on next step. Until then, stay negative if you like, but don't think others will thank you for this.

++

[Keremz]

I dont like useless topics like this one. But i'm gonna answer because im fed up with spoilt rotten kids.

1. This game is great and I play it competitively since the alpha eventhough i'm far from the bests.
2. It has some bad sides but these are minimal. Ofcourse it's not perfect but they are getting there slowly, remember the hitbox problem? It's so much better now.
3. NADEO ate so much rage that I could totally understand their reaction towards these kind of posts.

@Dreammy a.k.a Novationx

I think I have never seen anyone as stubborn as you, Dreammy.
I can tell because we had little personnal issues together back in CPLAY days and it was coming from the fact that you will never give up and never ever admit you're even slightly wrong.
What's the goal of this post exactly?
To me it seems like you just want Hylis to admit your point and nothing else. And I know you're not a bad guy but you can't argue by saying you're "objective" and that "everyone is backing you" every fucking time, I certainly don't want you to speak for myself. Plus, saying that you sell this game more than anyone does not even give you 0,000001% more right to bash NADEO.
TL;DR: You just rageposted because of whatever happened to you that day and that's not the way to help.

@XENOME:

"Look Csgo/Dota/LoL they found way too raise money to organize big event and make huge comunity."

Now we're getting to the point and I'm going to answer this for good.
I'M FED UP with people staring at big games only like RIOT and thinking they know something about game industry. If everyone thinks like this we're doomed, there will be no escape.
You can't just deny/bash the rest of the little games and say "HEY LOOK IT WORKED FOR THEM SO THAT'S THE ONLY WAY! YAY!!!11". This new generation of gamer and the following ones are gonna be a hell of a pain. Freaking lobotomized spoilt kids who swear only by League of Legends "Look! many many players, so good game Look!". ROFL. Please, stop; and start thinking like an adult.

Why do you think most of the "progamers" raged SO MUCH against NADEO?

Because they were noticing an unprecedent rise of money, fame(etc) on the neighbours garden (Lol/CS/dota/blizzards) and as they were the top players on ShootMania, they litterally brainfarted and asked for the same by raging and insulting the little game developpers of NADEO.

The perfect example would be strenx who I quote from one of his comments (It was written in french iirc): "I don't deserve a shit game like this, I have been pro on quake so long and now I have this... WTF? I'm gonna make sure it won't represent the fast FPS genre at ESWC.". This is by far the best example of spoilt mindset that went viral amongst most of the players. It not only destroyed the game rating but the fun & the manner between players aswell because top players have almost more reach/visibility than NADEO alone.
I'm not even talking about little wannabes who dumbly repeat what their idols say. It's like getting in a little restaurant that is trying to do its own food from zero and you just litterally scream on their face "why don't you do like MCDONALDS, IT WORKS BITCH."
I have nothing personnal against you Xenome, but please do not fall into "LOOK AT LoL, if you can't do the same as them you suck you fail".

Their best advertisement tool were the FPS "pro" players but once they were not pleased it turned to hell for NADEO. So let's not make the same mistake and show new players some positiveness in a world where nothing is perfect.

[strenx]

It has been a long time since I haven't posted there :
But I don't like that people say something out of the context :
-------
This is what I wrote about Nadeo :

I'm tired of being quiet of something I want to say for a long time now.
People know that I've been blaming shootmania for months now, but I can tell you why.

As you know, I've been defending this game a lot. I've been streaming, I gave feedback, and I've tried as much as I can to promote this game in order to make it good for his future. Except for money side (and it's more thanks to Ubisoft), I had nothing in return, not even a thank you. I'm not afraid to say it, Shootmania is not really the problem, the community and the Shootmania development are the issue. (I'm tired to hide my feelings). I've been doing a lot of feedback on wordpad that took me many months in order to improve elite (because we all know that elite needs more than what is it at the moment) I've even contacted some guys who worked hard to make new mods and gave feedback of them (I've never said that, but I did it). During my internship, I took many months to make a file with feedbacks, improvement and why elite should improve in certain situations. You know what? I've got ignored. Just because I've blamed one thing due to the reason quoted above. Nowadays, shootmania is supposed to represent the fast fps. It could have been "the FAST FPS", and I swear to god that I've tried a lot to make this game better, but now I can't anymore. You can explain in many ways why it doesn't work and why the mod has to be changed in order to make a new vision and a hope for the community. People are stubborn and they keep asking themselves why this game doesn't work. Well, we told you, and we did the feedback for it. We might not have the experience of developing game.. but we do have the experience of making a good competition game, because that's what we do for years in top level. From now on, I will stop wasting my time writing for months some feedbacks of the game that are not even taken into account. If it was possible to make a donation button in order to make a new mod, I would gather everyone to pay a guy that is able to make a new mod (a fresh mod), and a new start for this game. People are struggling and this game is drowning (even more). We all said that this game had potential, we have to do something, we can't let that happen, right? I'm tired of being quiet, I'm tired of letting things happen. Only fools never change their minds.

ps : If I'm still trying it's because I want this game to work, we want the fast fps to get back.

My conclusion is that you don't know what really happened, and I was just tired that I had the same reply over and over without trying to find a common field. It was like that : you follow us, otherwise, don't play our game.

[Sanji]

I personnaly really believe in this game like I believed in TMNF... Even if I stopped the game 3 times.

We know that the game has some bugs, but does it make the game unplayable ? I don' t think. So the problem not comes from here.

But I think that the community can be the best community in the world, it cannot make the game survive. We need more people on the game, everyday we see less and less people on the game even in Elite or Siege who keeps almost 75% of the community.

Why do you think games like LoL or CSGO have so much players ? Because of Graphics ? Hell no. It's because they're present in almost all big Esport events, like DreamHack or ESL One. I know someone will tell :"Yeah ok, but they're at least at ESWC...". Guys, wake up, it's far enough to make advertising. SM needs to be presents in a lot more e-sport events : I'm not talking about make a tournament, but show-matchs ,for example, between SM pro-teams, bigger presence on social networks (ads on popular sites) or something like that...

I know it requires a lot of money, but it's a risk to take if you want to have more people on the game. It works with big multiplayer games, so why not with SM ?

Ubisoft bought you, it's time to ask them to make work the game and prove that you're a real game which can compete with fast-FPS like Quake or UT.

[UrinStein]

@ keremz
I am kinda glad that I'm not the only one that doesn't dig this f2p idea. I can only speak for myself here, but I think 20€ for this game is a steal. I'd really like to give anyone a taste of my fist when they say 20€ was way too much.

Though I'd like to see sth like 10% off for every title you already own (20 - 18 - 16,2 - 14,58) or something like that. There's no person I know that has all titles like I do, but well that's another story.

I don't really see where this game could make money via microtransactions with a community that has been used to free user created content for 10 years now.


Rearding this "people are complaining for no reason" thing, that some people here are saying, here's an example:

It's rather "we constantly ask the devs but we never get it now".
Active users know that this is not entirely true, there are many reports where the devs answered "fixed with next update, thanks".

As I seem to have gotten a rather bad reputation in that direction already, I wanna say, that if that's how you think of me (and/or people that from time to time share my opinion) you have misunderstood me.

I am rather patient when it comes to improvements and when they come (sooner or later) I'm thankful, even if I don't open a thread to specifically do that. You see, I might me an egoistic douche, but when there's an improvement to the game, what I'll do in response is play the game.

The reasons for me to come into the forum and get active are worsenings. While Maniaplanet is improving by a lot all the time (more scripting stuff, mix mapping, action maker, new design) and I'm definitely digging all of that, there are exactly two things that I have come to the forum to talk about:
- Titlepacks
- gameplay

Titlepacks
As more and more features were introduces to SM, it became more and more clear that you'd need a Titlepack to make use of them. Hence we got our Speedball Titlepack. The gamemode became a lot more enjoyable through one object in the game alone and we also got a bunch of custom objects. But it took only one month to realise that we'd put ourselves (a community that could at good times fill out one server with 8 people) onto a deserted island in the middle of nothing and no one would ever find us. For one year, until MP3 release, I played on a Titlepack that no one could see in the server lists, if he hadn't already downloaded it himself. How was I going to make advertisement for it? It is the only mode that I enjoy playing, for Christ's sake.

That was basically my first negative comment on the forum, because I felt betrayed, being tricked to play on a Titlepack just to see that it ultimately gave me a lot less good experience than I used to have...

Gameplay
We can talk all day about how much MP improves, but I won't be looking at the GUI and mixing blocks into each other for 700h+ if the game isn't actually fun to play!
And the game damn sure is fun to play. But as I've said a hundred times before, I'm really not liking the latest gameplay changes and that's basically why I've become more active in the forum since MP3 release. The game is not unplayable all of a sudden, but this is the first time that if I has the chance to downgrade by some Patches, I'd do it!

So far the game seemed to go into a certain direction for me and suddenly it turns by 90° and does something that has nothing to do with what the game is to me. All the new useless blocks, the new stamina system sucking the dynamic movement out of the game, I just don't get it. The gameplay is worse for me now than it was 6 months ago.

I'm in a limbo right now. If more of these changes are about to come, I might consider giving SM up as a "full-time hobby". So I'd rather see the devs focusing again on what the game was really good at pre-MP3.
But that's me! Maybe by these new changes they are trying to attract other/new players instead. Maybe that's a smart idea to keep the game alive, I certainly don't know.

I hope though that there is another way to give life back to this game than exchanging me (and other people like me) for a different player base with different ideas and wishes...

I've played some new MP3 Royal maps. I've played through the Platform campaign. If that's how Shootmania is supposed to look like, it'll be a completely different game than at release and I will not want to play it anymore.

I've made the same post in the same thread already, lol


Edit:
I complete forgot: the "the communiy has to do more" discussion
Im am struggling, I am really struggling to keep the little community alive that we have in Speedball. You guzys have problem to find other gold players in elite? Well I have problems to find 3 other players to play a shitty 2on2 version of Speedball. My focus is not on getting more people to play the game, it's on not losing the few buddies I already have.
Tell me again that I am the root of the player base problem. This is ridiculous.

[Cerovan]

Nowadays, shootmania is supposed to represent the fast fps.

I don't remember that we have market the game as a fast-fps. The medias did this but if i remember correctly, we only said that's an arena fps, not a fast-fps.

Why do you think games like LoL or CSGO have so much players ? Because of Graphics ? Hell no. It's because they're present in almost all big Esport events, like DreamHack or ESL One.

LoL took two years to really start to take off on the eSport scene (the game has first released in 2009). CS:GO took 1 and half year to do the same. I even remember that CS:GO was nearly abandoned on the eSport scene due to the war between the CS 1.6, CSS and CS:GO players (no one wanted to play on CS:GO). It's only because the community (and especially the pro-players) have started to go on the same direction that the things started to change for the game.
I just want to show that those games weren't instant hits and require a lot of time to be where they are today. And it's even more important for CS:GO as we talk of a legendary, world famous, licence, that we would think that from day 1, there was ton and ton of successful tournaments which wasn't the case.

Beside CS:GO, Shootmania is a new FPS licence, on an almost abandoned genre (and not particularly awaited by the players too), the arena FPS and Nadeo doesn't have the financial power or the aura of a Blizzard/Valve/Riot to push the game like them. So i don't think it's that bad while considering the circumstances

And it will be better and better as we improve the game with the patchs

There is few things that the community can do to help the game to grow (which is much more effective if you're doing it than us) is to contact the youtubers you like (not all of them, i don't ask you to spam Internet) to ask them if they are willing to do a video about Shootmania/Maniaplanet, if they see that there is an occasion to catch (if several people ask it), they'll maybe try it and talk about the game after.
If a player ask which FPS he should play, tell him to test Shootmania as it's free at start and on several titles, he risks nothing to test the game. They are little actions like those which help the game to gain some awareness on Internet (and which is more effective that an ads on a random website)