Canyon feels terrible now

[lemon]

Thx promarijan. Couldn't have said it better myself.

What annoys me the most about these changes is that all the records from past ~6 years are meaningless trash now. It's stupid to beat years old record on a first try after the patch.

[Hylis]

I think the first advice that is to take time to play with the update is wise. I don't think people would have reacted the same if Canyon did not had the low speed speedslide right from the beginning. So, yes, when you lose something that you had, there are frustrations, but it should be seen with some distance. And be sure we did not removed them on purpose, it's a consequence of other changes, probably something like the anti-exploit stuff we had to do to prevent macros to help, like in Valley for example. Now, this being said, there are also arguments to not try to make them back again, like the fact that it was a clear disadvantages for keyboard players and some sort of exploit in itself. But it's just to say that there is a balance there.

On record things, they are still valid, they were made in MP3 and are still in MP3. They were made with different official try rules and with different physics, that were way too hard to keep exactly the same for various reasons, like for example the fact that some blocks had to be "fixed" and would have made a difference anyway. We intend to make an official MP3 "hall of fame" of solo, per region, as soon as we have enough time. We have other priorities. I believe that, again, once you will be in the MP4 mood, you will see more an opportunity to renew the challenge than to stick to a very long past. By the way, 24h has often been too short to react, like so many players making so big critics toward the Canyon gameplay at it's release. The very same gameplay that you now want to strongly to be exactly the same.

About gravity, I changed nothing about it. So either someone made it without telling me (and I would be really surprise someone dare do this in my back ^_^) either it is one of the two reasons: something we did not made on purpose, or, a different feeling of speed due to two main possible reasons: either a different perception due to a change in camera (that we tried to do the same as possible) or something that always happened in the past, the fact that the brain is so used to the gameplay that when it thinks it's new, it somehow reset something and make the feeling heavier. I know the phenomenon since we had it since 2004. In 2006, I was so much thinking that there were an issue, I have asked engineers to put some detectors of input lags etc. I also did a blind test to try prove there were a difference, and failed. I then started to try understand why this perception is different, and my conclusion are that we know something is new (the hud, the version number, the event) and we look in a different way to the gameplay itself, like if we were more concentrated. It's a little the feeling of when you switch from one lighter gameplay to another more heavy, there is some sort of feeling that it's heavier than what you remembered, even if the explanation here is much more simple.

I think this is why you should take some days and then look at the result. I believe that the framerate gain itself will be helpful to appreciate the update since the control themselves always benefit from higher framerate: the likeliness that your input are taken into account and visible quickly is higher at higher framerate, even with 60hz screen.

Be sure that we do care about gameplay, and I think it's why you are so interested into our way to make them, and that we are ok with people being careful about it. It just have to be made in the most constructive way as possible. Thanks.

[Miss]

Have you guys tried disabling the sounds? Can you then still say it feels different from MP3?

[Rots]

Changing gravity by the way is the worst thing you can ever do in a trackmania environment...

I can't see the gravity changes you say on canyon.

[IntrepidW]

Personally I love the new physics, makes the car feel more responsive and less of a tricky yacht to manouvre. Plus having been playing the Nadeo maps for years and it's great to finally be setting some amazin' times.

[edk]

...

You don't get to say that you made changes to remove some low speed slides and then imply the physics have not changed.

The fact that some low speed slides are removed/nerfed is a physics change, regardless of your rational concerning the origin of that change.

Noone who is any good at this game agrees with you. It comes across like you have absolutely no idea what is going on in your own game and that you haven't even bothered to play it in a long while. That being said the changes are not large enough such that a casual player would notice them. But make no mistake there are changes to the physics in some capacity.

Perhaps your staff is afraid of saying something to you, which is a common occurance in a professional work environment. Noone wants to rock that boat. I don't work for you though, so I'll tell you straight up, just because you've been told something, or aren't good enough at your own game to feel the difference, doesn't mean there isn't one, because there most definitely is.

[Rots]

damn, the overreaction is real. Why so mad? Minor things changed, it's still the same game. the main thing making you beat records it's the faster start, not because of acceleration. That broke the whole thing rather that speed drifts

[edk]

damn, the overreaction is real. Why so mad? Minor things changed, it's still the same game. the main thing making you beat records it's the faster start, not because of acceleration. That broke the whole thing rather that speed drifts

I'm definitely not mad, but I do like to choose accurate vocabulary. I can't help if you read into that.

I also don't think the changes are necessarily bad and really don't think it makes the game even remotely terrible. It's still 95% the same exact amazing gameplay that we've all enjoyed over the years.

But let's atleast try to be accurate and honest when it comes to describing what changes have been made.

And I would also agree with you that many are greatly overreacting, and don't even bother going to Steam forums, that place is crazy.

[Phoenix0072009]

He is 100% right... It utterly feels unplayable to me and if not changed back makes me stop playing it entirely! Unacceptable changes!
I loved this game since 13 Years now and it was always true to its origin... This is not what Trackmania used to be!

Edit: i also don't see a competitive scene anymore with those physics... eswc won't be an option anymore AT ALL and private hosted tournaments won't be that great anymore aswell as it used to be!
And i am not one of the trolling plebs, i am one of those who played long long enough (90K is the norm) and i am being fully honest and true to this opinion i stated!

I agree on this !!!

ManiaPlanet 4 update KILLED TM2 !!!

[Phoenix0072009]

I think the first advice that is to take time to play with the update is wise. I don't think people would have reacted the same if Canyon did not had the low speed speedslide right from the beginning. So, yes, when you lose something that you had, there are frustrations, but it should be seen with some distance. And be sure we did not removed them on purpose, it's a consequence of other changes, probably something like the anti-exploit stuff we had to do to prevent macros to help, like in Valley for example. Now, this being said, there are also arguments to not try to make them back again, like the fact that it was a clear disadvantages for keyboard players and some sort of exploit in itself. But it's just to say that there is a balance there.

On record things, they are still valid, they were made in MP3 and are still in MP3. They were made with different official try rules and with different physics, that were way too hard to keep exactly the same for various reasons, like for example the fact that some blocks had to be "fixed" and would have made a difference anyway. We intend to make an official MP3 "hall of fame" of solo, per region, as soon as we have enough time. We have other priorities. I believe that, again, once you will be in the MP4 mood, you will see more an opportunity to renew the challenge than to stick to a very long past. By the way, 24h has often been too short to react, like so many players making so big critics toward the Canyon gameplay at it's release. The very same gameplay that you now want to strongly to be exactly the same.

About gravity, I changed nothing about it. So either someone made it without telling me (and I would be really surprise someone dare do this in my back ^_^) either it is one of the two reasons: something we did not made on purpose, or, a different feeling of speed due to two main possible reasons: either a different perception due to a change in camera (that we tried to do the same as possible) or something that always happened in the past, the fact that the brain is so used to the gameplay that when it thinks it's new, it somehow reset something and make the feeling heavier. I know the phenomenon since we had it since 2004. In 2006, I was so much thinking that there were an issue, I have asked engineers to put some detectors of input lags etc. I also did a blind test to try prove there were a difference, and failed. I then started to try understand why this perception is different, and my conclusion are that we know something is new (the hud, the version number, the event) and we look in a different way to the gameplay itself, like if we were more concentrated. It's a little the feeling of when you switch from one lighter gameplay to another more heavy, there is some sort of feeling that it's heavier than what you remembered, even if the explanation here is much more simple.

I think this is why you should take some days and then look at the result. I believe that the framerate gain itself will be helpful to appreciate the update since the control themselves always benefit from higher framerate: the likeliness that your input are taken into account and visible quickly is higher at higher framerate, even with 60hz screen.

Be sure that we do care about gameplay, and I think it's why you are so interested into our way to make them, and that we are ok with people being careful about it. It just have to be made in the most constructive way as possible. Thanks.

Just played it for the past 15 minutes (and already playing it for year's on a daily basis):

Steering is lagging.
Personal settings: GONE
Favorite Servers: GONE
Car's/skin's: GONE

This is NOT what I expected from a long overdue update!
I've got a very strong feeling this was NOT tested!

And who asked for an update that now look's and feel's like Track Mania Turbo ???
I've got TM Turbo too, and that was also very disappointing ...

Regards,
Phoenix[48]