[Ladder] Possible Ladder

[tcq]

As there came up the dicussion about the ladder in this thread, why not open a thread and discuss how a ladder in TM2 can be?

Will give my idea for a ladder later on, don't have the time to write it down atm.
So just a few keynotes here.
Multiple ladders for each mode (stunt, ta, rounds, team, cup) which will be added to an overall rank, so the best driver of tm will get points through all ladders. Question here: how much time you need to put in this, to get in all ladders up? RoCs for all of the playing styles? RoCs with higher playerlimit, but only the best will get points (e.g.24 players and only top 12 get points)? Ladder open or with points decrase? Forced offical mode or possibility to switch between offical or not, depending on the server?
So just go an, discuss this idea a bit or present your own idea.

[Trackmaniack]

Well, firstly, I think the addition of a skill beside the username would be fun...just a lil somethin' you could add in...like when you got your first 1000 points you became a rookie pilot. When you hit the 2500 you became a trainee, or something like that...and on and on up the grid. But then of course that would mean there would have to be a points cap, which I'm against...

My other suggestion would be to have a dynamic ladder...and by this I mean you're always losing points. Like, you win points for the races you win, but if you're not on for a week...then you start losing points, or something. This way the new players have an equal chance to get up to the top as say Zooz--cuz we know he'll get up there and stay there otherwise. But then if you had the rank idea above implemented, you would keep your rank even if you lost your points--so people would know where you stood in terms of skill...

[Boumsong]

I still don't see why we can't just have a ladder where you win points for beating people and lose pinjts for losing to people, based on the level of the other drivers of course. Beating a high ranked players gains you more points than you would lose losing to a noob like me

OK, you'd get the super Zooz pros at the top all the time, but isn't that the point of a ladder, the best players would be at the top? Doesn't really mean very much otherwise, does it?

[Trackmaniack]

I still don't see why we can't just have a ladder where you win points for beating people and lose pinjts for losing to people, based on the level of the other drivers of course. Beating a high ranked players gains you more points than you would lose losing to a noob like me

OK, you'd get the super Zooz pros at the top all the time, but isn't that the point of a ladder, the best players would be at the top? Doesn't really mean very much otherwise, does it?

It makes sense what you're saying...I guess if the ladder is "just a ladder", I suppose. If being higher up on the ladder grants you anything other than renown, however, it might be nice to have said dynamic ladder so that the newest/slowest players aren't stuck at the bottom and don't get any of the perks of being on the top.

[Aero]

I still don't see why we can't just have a ladder where you win points for beating people and lose pinjts for losing to people, based on the level of the other drivers of course. Beating a high ranked players gains you more points than you would lose losing to a noob like me

OK, you'd get the super Zooz pros at the top all the time, but isn't that the point of a ladder, the best players would be at the top? Doesn't really mean very much otherwise, does it?

+1
this is the perfect ladder in my opinion.
such a ladder for each mode (ta, rounds, stunt,...), combined to an overall ladder maybe...

[Slig]

I still don't see why we can't just have a ladder where you win points for beating people and lose pinjts for losing to people, based on the level of the other drivers of course. Beating a high ranked players gains you more points than you would lose losing to a noob like me

It has already existed, on tms.
It is very nice, but have too serious drawbacks for the game editor : too many players are afraid to loose ladder points, so too often some are leaving servers when they see a better player coming (or worse a better player with smaller ladder rank ^^). And i can understand that Nadeo don't want to see players who stop to play to avoid to lose points, they logically prefer to have players encouraged......

My other suggestion would be to have a dynamic ladder...and by this I mean you're always losing points. Like, you win points for the races you win, but if you're not on for a week...then you start losing points, or something. This way the new players have an equal chance to get up to the top as say Zooz--cuz we know he'll get up there and stay there otherwise. But then if you had the rank idea above implemented, you would keep your rank even if you lost your points--so people would know where you stood in terms of skill...

It is already the case on TMF, in a way which permit to keep stable ladder limits :
each monday all players loose points, keeping the previous ranks, and keeping proportionally the gaps between previous players points ; the 100 first are proportionnally ajusted between 100000 and 90000 points, the 1000 next between 90000 and 80000, the 10000 next between 80000 and 70000, etc.
After the issues of the tms positive/negative ladder, and the issues of the no points limits of the tmn eswc ladder, such ladder was a not so bad idea. Surely not perfect, but i don't think that a perfect ladder system exists in a case where any player can choose to just not play to keep points, and that making players leave the game is not wanted

[Boumsong]

A valid point Slig - then I guess there must be a penalty for not playing in official mode, a few points per day or something?

[ionian]

I would prefer there to be no overall central ladder for online play. Skillpoints work fine for solo mode, and there should be a ladder for that. However, TMF is so diversified, with many different track styles, many different types of racers, and one ladder can't possibly cover everything.

Instead, I would like it to be possible to set up user-created ladders which people can join by request to the administrator or by invite. They would work using a similar format as the TMS ladder (but with points lost over time?), and only become active on the servers designated by the administrators. This way, there can be an ET ladder, a stunt ladder, a lol ladder - all run by the community and without the need for RoCs or other imperfect solutions. If you don't like a ladder, don't join - or find another one! You could join multiple ladders, so you could make a group with your friends, with your clan, and a larger global ladder run by one of the big community sites (TMX / ET / ESL etc).

EDIT: maybe the format of the ladder could be user defined as well - points gained, points lost, and points lost over time could be variables that can be adjusted when setting up a ladder.

I guess this might be a lot of coding (I am not a programmer so I am not sure) and require a lot of data storage - but it would add another layer of creativity and player management to the community.

I can expand on these ideas if you like - let me know if I have not explained it very well!

[mammbos]

i don't know how many people have played other racing games apart from tm but most off them have a system where you earn points and never lose them. how many points you earn can be adjusted by the configuration of nadeo but the point is that it will not desapoint old player who lose all the points and never play ladder for that reason.

if you want a dynamic it is possible to have a week mvp list every week where the players who won the most points last week will appear. that way is is possible to see who are the veterans as well the best players of the week. everybody happy that way

[ionian]

i don't know how many people have played other racing games apart from tm but most off them have a system where you earn points and never lose them. how many points you earn can be adjusted by the configuration of nadeo but the point is that it will not desapoint old player who lose all the points and never play ladder for that reason.

The trouble is, TM has a much longer life for gamers than most other racing games - and with maniaplanet and the planned release of environments for at least 3 years, players who buy the game later are at a massive disadvantage if they want to climb the ladder. The points loss in TMUF is not a problem for a good player, as it is very easy to earn lost points if you want to - and it is the good players who should be at the top of the rankings.

if you want a dynamic it is possible to have a week mvp list every week where the players who won the most points last week will appear. that way is is possible to see who are the veterans as well the best players of the week. everybody happy that way

I quite like the idea of a weekly or monthly ladder, as opposed to one that runs forever - and maybe there could be a hall of fame worked out on a players average ranking in the weekly/monthly ladder.

If there was better integration of the tournament and league scene in maniaplanet, it would be much easier to give a higher profile to the best players - if that's what they want