Can we have small updates a bit more frequent?

[Nerpson]

We need to face the truth: Valley misses major updates. You're right (@Riolu).

My opinion is that Nadeo should post monthly bug fixes updates, and release when ready the new TrackMania, also when major issues will be fixed.

[wooloo]

Lol, he just swapped the quotes...

[TheM]

The last thing Maniaplanet needs are additional environments for any of the games. Nadeo should be focussing on providing a working and stable Maniaplanet first by fixing the countless bugs spread all over the place. It makes absolutely no sense releasing additional environments such as Lagoon or Cryo when the already existing environments are suffering from bugs, lack of depth gameplay-wise and a low playerbase. At this point of time I think releasing Valley was way too early as it feels rushed as a whole and barely gets any attention from Nadeo since it's release. I don't remember Valley receiving a noticable update ever. I bet the same would happen to any new environment.
Having set periods of time where you are working on specific things (as Dreammy suggested) would only lead in more stress and pressure for all of the devs. It's not about extending the environments only. If Maniaplanet as a whole does not work properly and feels unaccessible for new players, then it has no use adding cool and fancy new stuff to the existing environments.

Thank you for clearly expressing a point which I've been trying to bring across for some time now towards Nadeo.
Releasing Lagoon (or whatever new environment) will probably (!) lead to another Valley-like environment in terms of playerbase/updates. The only competition I've come across Valley is the SmurfsCup and sometimes an ESL cup (I might be missing stuff). ET realized that Valley wasn't worth organizing competitions on (anymore) and I don't know what faith it will have on ESL.
(Not wanting to imply that competitions = activity, but activity most often leads to competitions.)

TrackMania (and I think ShootMania, don't pin me on it, haven't been playing for quite some time now) doesn't have the playerbase for another environment. People from the existing environments (probably mostly Canyon (and Valley - mostly the same players)) will check it out, play it for a while and then largely return to the environment they came from.

And of course: people will say that "we" - the community - have to make the games active. Of course, we have to, though we only can up to a certain point. If a game is not good enough or is not properly advertised, you can't expect the community to carry the game. The community needs support from the game developer.

The views expressed above are purely my own and may not represent the views of the moderatorteam or Nadeo.

[TMarc]

The funny thing is that exactly the same community complains that the existing ManiaPlanet games don't show enough diversity, despite the gradually enhanced possibilities with mixmapping, objects and mods.

TrackMania United fans complain about the missing "old known" environments.
TrackMania ESWC/TMNF fans want to keep their rank also with TrackMania² Stadium.
ShootMania players are still upset about the B2/B3 changes and matchmaking issues etc.

Nadeo has to continue the development, and as long as the tools are not all available or not open to allow a complete customisation, they need to release new professional titles to keep attracting players.

Many of us have shown lot of patience, and for my part, I'm still willing to show until April this year... and longer? I don't know yet

[novationx]

Maybe its both?
--> bugs & not enough diversity. But lets take it step by step?
I was really happy that the SM powerup got announced. It really felt like "We are gonna improve this game without adding too much new stuff!!" That was exactly what I was hoping for. ( june 2014? )
Then : nothing anymore. Well, not nothing. We had some updates but nothing that we notice while gaming + cup support.

And the weird thing to me is that ever since some were asking for updates ( inc. me ) NADEO has become really silent on the forums.

-------------------------------

NADEO believes ( with some good arguements ) that being silent is also good. So I think that if we want to have more updates & announcements that we need to change their minds with some good counter-arguements.

My counter-arguement:
Some players play a game4life. Others play until they find something else that is better or feels more fresh.
Well, after long periods of silence it becomes really easy to find something that feels fresh/new.( new games are released every day. )
Teasing/Spoilers and frequent small updates would keep the game feel fresh/new and with a future. This would make it easier to stay.

+ I hardly play CSGO, but I always check out the updates because I'm curious. And now & then a good update makes me play 10-20matches. I never "lose my connection" with CSGO because of the frequent updates.
Its harder to go back to a game after a year of nothingness;

As long as the game keeps evolving I wont uninstall it. If I uninstall = game over for ever.

[TheM]

The funny thing is that exactly the same community complains that the existing ManiaPlanet games don't show enough diversity, despite the gradually enhanced possibilities with mixmapping, objects and mods.

TrackMania United fans complain about the missing "old known" environments.

Diversity, sure. I think that diversity isn't that big of a problem, honestly.
If you don't like the ManiaPlanet environments, there is nothing holding you back from playing United...

Remember that United was like €30,- (at least the Forever one was at release). It gave you 7 environments with different graphics and different gameplay. Having the three TrackMania environments already costs you €50,-. I find the money worth it for Stadium (ignoring that it's free in Nations Forever) and Canyon. Valley seems not completely worth it. Getting to 7 environments would mean it costs €50,- (3) + €80 (4x€20) = €130,- which is an absurd amount of money (even speculating it'll get to 7 environments, which it probably won't).

That's the cost aspect. If you bought United you had access to all 7 environments and access to multienvironment servers from the start. It has taken so long for it to be available in ManiaPlanet, that people are in their own environment, which they like the most and are the best in, and don't want to play on multienvironment servers.
This means that either the community is split up over the games, or some games get almost no players (Valley).

TrackMania ESWC/TMNF fans want to keep their rank also with TrackMania² Stadium.

ESWC -> TMNF wasn't too big of a problem... The problem is that Stadium either changed too much (f.e. FullSpeed) or changed too little.

Nadeo has to continue the development, and as long as the tools are not all available or not open to allow a complete customisation, they need to release new professional titles to keep attracting players.

I don't understand how you think that "more titles = more players", because Valley has proven that it's just not the case. What Nadeo needs is to improve the current system and the current environments, iron out all the bugs and improve gameplay. When all that has happened, than they can look at more environments, if they at least advertise them properly, have good gameplay, etc.

Many of us have shown lot of patience, and for my part, I'm still willing to show until April this year... and longer? I don't know yet

I don't know ... I'm looking forward to the "Year of TrackMania". But my biggest fear is that it'll be just another environment and nothing happens to the current titles/system. That, I fear, could be the dead-trap for TrackMania (or possibly Nadeo, I don't know).

The views expressed above are purely my own and may not represent the views of the moderatorteam or Nadeo.

[TMarc]

The views expressed above are purely my own and may not represent the views of the moderatorteam or Nadeo.

Same for me, of course

Valley had attracted people for some time, and a new title will attract again people.
I'm sure Nadeo is surprised and disappointed as well that Valley never had the "success" of Canyon or Stadium.
If the next title is good and "better than Valley", more people will stay.

But Nadeo can't only count on the community to bring amazing titles like RPG or Raid.
Look at Raid: one, two people are working on it, if they have the mood to do it.
No doubt, it looks great, but there's still plenty to do there, and it's already pretty silent after the tests on Valley Raid server.
Meuh has asked already long time for the custom CP, now they are there. He also had asked for some kind of minimap or radar view, and he's still waiting for it.

Certainly the demand for bugfixes and new features for ShootMania has exploded in the past years (still ongoing novationx ), and here Nadeo has to find the good balance.

That they are currently rather quiet makes the demand much louder apparently...

[Dommy]

He also had asked for some kind of minimap or radar view, and he's still waiting for it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o3whgvkwqy4gu ... 1.png?dl=0

[TMarc]

Pardon? I know this minimap, but like this it is not really usable for Raid
The CPs needs to be shown, the next CP should be highlighted.
The already driven route should be shown.
We need scripting support to draw lines, e.g. bezier curves, and text on the minimap, and also some hud elements...

[novationx]

Some "negative" thinking :

--> What if a new environment doesnt bring NEW/More players but instead divides the playerbase?
So actually it decreases the average playerbase per environement.

And maybe it's not negative, but just realistic thinking ( And yes, ofc new players will always come. I know that. )


What if we (NADEO) wait with new environements and instead create : leaderboards, statistics ( probably also usefull for TM ), design updates, bug fixes, block fixes, new blocks, 100% correct documentation, tutorials, improved economy, improved ladder... etc etc.
Until it's reaaaaly a solid game.

I believe it will only have a positive impact on (future) new environments then.